Weatherby is circling the toilet bowl

[bmart2622]

Not to be argumentative but when I stopped in the Weatherby store this year while in Wyoming they has shelves of ammo available. Everything from .224 to .460 Weatherby including the 6.5 RPM and .338 RPM.

Are they pumping out ammo like Hornady? Nope but it appeared they had plenty available.


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I agree, Wby ammo is consistently on the shelves where I live

 

[AkRyan]

Do you work for Weatherby?






Justify its purpose?

No I do not I just watch markets closely. The 6.5 want more is a target round that got justified as a hunting round (yes it works for hunting but there are others that do the same or more so no need) it started the push for high bc for caliber bullets so people could sit on the opposite mountain side and shoot animals at 1000yrds. I myself am not a huge fan of long range hunting unless you spend copious amounts of time at the range.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

. I myself am not a huge fan of long range hunting unless you spend copious amounts of time at the range.

You must REALLY not like Weatherby cartridges then.....

 

[AkRyan]

You must REALLY not like Weatherby cartridges then.....

I have nothing against anyone's products I just don't agreed with there intended use because it gives novices hunters a false sense of security.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have nothing against anyone's products I just don't agreed with there intended use because it gives novices hunters a false sense of security.

That’s literally what Weatherby cartridges were for- to give those that are incompetent more range in their “just hold on the back line”.

 

[Formidilosus]

No I do not I just watch markets closely.

You stated- “what our customers are asking for”.

The 6.5 want more is a target round that got justified as a hunting round (yes it works for hunting but there are others that do the same or more so no need) it started the push for high bc for caliber bullets so people could sit on the opposite mountain side and shoot animals at 1000yrds.

You actually believe the 6.5cm is what started people sitting on the opposite mountainside shooting at animals at 1,000 yards? And you believe that it is what started the desire for high BC bullets?

What was the purpose of the 300 RUM, 7mm RUM, 338 RUM? As well as the 30-378 Weatherby, 7mm STW, all the Lazzeroni cartridges, etc, etc?



The 6.5 CM came about because it is what shooters wanted. What shooters wanted from a factory round that they were already doing with reloads and gunsmithing.

I myself am not a huge fan of long range hunting unless you spend copious amounts of time at the range.

People shooting at long range as they are now has absolutely nothing to do with the rounds that are popular and everything to do with social media and influencers pushing products and views.

 

[JohnJohnson]

people could sit on the opposite mountain side and shoot animals at 1000yrds. I myself am not a huge fan of long range hunting unless you spend copious amounts of time at the range.

That sounds like exactly what Weatherby's whole marketing gimmick has been for decades though. I can shoot to X distance because I have a 300 Remchesterby Shitkicking Magnum with very little drop. And it turns out most people can't shoot those cartridges well because their recoil is crazy in light hunting-weight rifles and it makes people flinch (plus it costs a lot more per round so they don't practice as much).

If anything the 6.5CM addresses the problems created by companies like Weatherby. A light recoiling cartridge you get good external ballistics with that doesn't abuse you and costs 1/2 as much to shoot. So you end up shooting more with it and being a better shot.

 

[amassi]

Not to be argumentative but when I stopped in the Weatherby store this year while in Wyoming they has shelves of ammo available. Everything from .224 to .460 Weatherby including the 6.5 RPM and .338 RPM.

Are they pumping out ammo like Hornady? Nope but it appeared they had plenty available.


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All it takes is a quick 900 mile drive to the store in Sheridan to find their ammo. Really crazy that the flagship and only store for the brand would have all the skus in stock.
My lgs has a few boxes of 300 and 30-378.
One box of 100 gr 257 interlocks


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[Balderdash]

No I do not I just watch markets closely. The 6.5 want more is a target round that got justified as a hunting round (yes it works for hunting but there are others that do the same or more so no need) it started the push for high bc for caliber bullets so people could sit on the opposite mountain side and shoot animals at 1000yrds. I myself am not a huge fan of long range hunting unless you spend copious amounts of time at the range.

A few hundred thousand Swedes who tipped likely millions of Moose over with a very, very similar 6.5x55 would likely disagree with your assertion that the 6.5 CM had to be justified as a hunting cartridge.

I wasn't overly impressed with the 6.5 CM early on, either. Not that I thought it wouldn't kill effectively, I just didn't buy into the hype. And, let's face it, some CM owners didn't help the cause. I can't count the number of times I've been subjected to a diatribe on how great the 6.5 CM is by an exuberant 6.5 CM shooter who doesn't even fully understand why the 6.5 CM is so well designed and connects so many dots.

Overtime, I've come to enjoy the round. Mild recoil, plentiful ammo and high quality components.

 

[RockAndSage]

There's plenty of criticism to go around across the board, whether it's Weatherby giving or not giving what customers want, or the flat-billers launching super-sniper rounds way past what their bullet construction and velocity are capable of consistently killing at, or, you know, just practice more with low recoil and .223 77gn TMK DRT.

Full disclosure, I don't own or shoot a Weatherby, but there's one angle to the Weatherby approach I haven't heard mentioned here at all, that would seem to be fair in bringing up: Speed just gets the bullet to the target a lot faster, and that does remove more of some problems from the equation, right?

Sometimes that buck just isn't going to stop to browse and give you the perfect broadside shot, or you may have a perfectly still buck or bull, and just one step occurring during your trigger squeeze before you recognize it happening is the difference between gut-shot, a miss, or a dead animal you don't need to track for days. 2600FPS vs 3400FPS is more than just numbers. Varmint hunters value speed for similar reasons - it's not lightweight bullets just to save the pelts.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Full disclosure, I don't own or shoot a Weatherby, but there's one angle to the Weatherby approach I haven't heard mentioned here at all, that would seem to be fair in bringing up: Speed just gets the bullet to the target a lot faster, and that does remove more of some problems from the equation, right?

Sometimes that buck just isn't going to stop to browse and give you the perfect broadside shot, or you may have a perfectly still buck or bull, and just one step occurring during your trigger squeeze before you recognize it happening is the difference between gut-shot, a miss, or a dead animal you don't need to track for days. 2600FPS vs 3400FPS is more than just numbers. Varmint hunters value speed for similar reasons - it's not lightweight bullets just to save the pelts.

Not as much as you'd think. Even in your extreme velocity difference example, which could be a slow 308 with a 175 SMK at 2600 fps and a 300wby 150gr at 3375 (factory load), the time to target difference is only .15 seconds at 500y.

 

[RockAndSage]

Not as much as you'd think. Even in your extreme velocity difference example, which could be a slow 308 with a 175 SMK at 2600 fps and a 300wby 150gr at 3375 (factory load), the time to target difference is only .15 seconds at 500y.

And my point is, if a buck or a bull takes a step between the time you decide to pull that trigger and the time the gun goes bang, the faster bullet has the best chance of landing in the vitals before those vitals move off point-of-aim. And yes, .15 of a second is plenty of time to miss moving vitals.

Now, are Weatherby's speed demons necessary? Not at all.

But "speed kills" is not just about applied energy. Sometimes, it's getting that energy applied to begin with. And on moving targets - unexpectedly moving or otherwise - it does offer some advantages.

 

[JohnJohnson]

And yes, .15 of a second is plenty of time to miss moving vitals.

It's 0.15 seconds. Unless you're taking that 500 yard shot on a running deer I don't see how it's enough to miss vitals.

 

[AkRyan]

You stated- “what our customers are asking for”.




You actually believe the 6.5cm is what started people sitting on the opposite mountainside shooting at animals at 1,000 yards? And you believe that it is what started the desire for high BC bullets?

What was the purpose of the 300 RUM, 7mm RUM, 338 RUM? As well as the 30-378 Weatherby, 7mm STW, all the Lazzeroni cartridges, etc, etc?



The 6.5 CM came about because it is what shooters wanted. What shooters wanted from a factory round that they were already doing with reloads and gunsmithing.






People shooting at long range as they are now has absolutely nothing to do with the rounds that are popular and everything to do with social media and influencers pushing products and views.

None of those cartridges were designed to shoot heavy for caliber (high bc) bullets. The creedmore was specifically designed to shoot heavy for caliber bullets at moderate speeds. This is also why they made the 6.5prc....the cm left allot of people wanting more.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

None of those cartridges were designed to shoot heavy for caliber (high bc) bullets. The creedmore was specifically designed to shoot heavy for caliber bullets at moderate speeds. This is also why they made the 6.5prc....the cm left allot of people wanting more.

So you dont work for Weatherby?

 

[RockAndSage]

It's 0.15 seconds. Unless you're taking that 500 yard shot on a running deer I don't see how it's enough to miss vitals.

A lot more can happen in .15 of a second than most people realize. It takes the average police officer on a range about 1.5 seconds to draw and fire their handgun, and an assailant can cover about 21 feet in that amount of time, from standing still. Google "Tueller drill" on that one. But cut both of those numbers by 90% and you still get 2.1 feet of movement in .15 seconds. A ball held out still and then just dropped will accelerate with gravity enough to cover about 4.25 inches in .15 seconds.

So yeah, .15 seconds is nowhere near as little time as it may appear, and coyote hunters can attest to that. It's a big part of why so many dedicated ones are running .22-250s and .22 Creeds, rather than .22 Hornets. They have fewer misses.

Listen, people can bag on Weatherby for a lot of reasons, but speed is neither antiquated nor irrelevant. It's a fair point to bring up, and it's not one I see brought up often by square-range shooters, or people who don't put the majority of their real-world shooting experience into unpredictable or moving targets, or short-duration unknown distance targets. In some situations, speed does give an advantage. Whether or not it makes a difference is circumstantial.

 

[JohnJohnson]

So yeah, .15 seconds is nowhere near as little time as it may appear, and coyote hunters can attest to that. It's a big part of why so many dedicated ones are running .22-250s and .22 Creeds, rather than .22 Hornets. They have fewer misses.

Listen, people can bag on Weatherby for a lot of reasons, but speed is neither antiquated nor irrelevant. It's a fair point to bring up, and it's not one I see brought up often by square-range shooters, or people who don't put the majority of their real-world shooting experience into unpredictable or moving targets, or short-duration unknown distance targets. In some situations, speed does give an advantage. Whether or not it makes a difference is circumstantial.

I figured the relevance in this situation, since it's not in the predator section, was mid to long range big game hunting. I would very much hope that people are not taking 400+ yard shots on moving animals but maybe a select few have the skill and for them that speed is actually relevant.

 

[RockAndSage]

I figured the relevance in this situation, since it's not in the predator section, was mid to long range big game hunting. I would very much hope that people are not taking 400+ yard shots on moving animals but maybe a select few have the skill and for them that speed is actually relevant.

What forum are we in here again? The long-range forum? Or the firearms forum?

 

[JohnJohnson]

What forum are we in here again? The long-range forum? Or the firearms forum?

We're in the firearms section of the backpacking forum. More specifically we're in a thread in which the OP mentions the words "long range" and "deer", not coyote.

 

[RockAndSage]

I figured the relevance in this situation, since it's not in the predator section, was mid to long range big game hunting. I would very much hope that people are not taking 400+ yard shots on moving animals but maybe a select few have the skill and for them that speed is actually relevant.

As to taking shots out past 400 yards, only "a select few have the skill" to do that at all. On a good day. On a square range. With no wind. And certainly not in field conditions during a long hunt. I'd also offer that a significant number of the wounded animals shot at "long range" were wounded specifically because flight time vs the reality of a living, moving animal were not part of the calculus of the shot - a shot that would have been fine on a paper target. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but is Rokslide in general, or the hunters on it, here because it's a "mid to long range big game hunting" forum?

Again, I want to be clear: my point is that speed isn't antiquated or irrelevant, and that not enough people are talking about it as part of the realities of hunting - big game included.