We cannot let the cure be worse than the problem

[Oregon]

DOTUS response has been largely incompetent and clearly he's out of his depth. At this point he just needs to get out of the way and let the folks that know what they're doing handle this. The less he says and tweets the better. There's still a chance to get some semblance of a handle on this thing but every day it's going to be harder to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

I still struggle to see the major errors from the onset. I‘ve looked hard. While he was trying to keep the sheep calm, his admin was shutting down borders.
Obviously, 60% of Americans agree, that says a lot because only 50% like the guy.
Daily pressers with the top Dr’s televised assures me he is letting the professionals handle it.

Where was the outrage when former Presidents took advice from Generals on the ground in the time of war, and chose a different path from what the experts(generals) wanted??
Absolutely zero difference. It his job to have the best people around him to give advice. Also his job to make the decisions based on advice received.
Im perfectly content.

 

[Kilboars]

Good info from Newt and friends.

Google Podcasts is no longer available

podcasts.google.com

 

[brsnow]

Obama had death panels, now we have this.

 

[Kilboars]

Still more people OD each day than have died from the Corona Virus in this country. I think the economy will come screaming back in a month or two.

Most of the the hype is pumped up by the same media trying to tear down our President. I think again he'll show them all why American Business minds are what makes us great, not career politicians and their 24/7/365 re-election schemes.

USA USA USA

 

[fatlander]

Here’s the part that keeps me up at night:

All we talk about is flattening the curve so we don’t overload medical capacity. And we are constantly shown a graph with the curve peaking at this arbitrary medical capacity.

What are we doing right this second to increase medical capacity EVERYWHERE? That should be the number one focus. The problem isn’t whether people are going to get severely ill or not. The problem is not having enough capacity to treat them.

Politicians are arguing about f***ing airplane emissions instead of building ICU BEDS.

Testing is now nothing more than fear mongering. It takes 2-5 days to get results and they’re only testing the severely ill anyway. Joe blow that has a scratchy throat ain’t getting tested but he sure as hell can spread it.

What happens when we come back out of isolation and we spike right back up again?

What happens when we blow past that arbitrary line of medical capacity anyway? We’re broke and the system is overwhelmed?


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[wysongdog]

The roads are still packed here.....as usual. Haven't seen even a little letup on traffic during normal driving times.

The Front range traffic seems to be thick all the time whenever I'm down your way, but the majority of traffic seems to be personal vehicles.
Most of our traffic is semi truck traffic transporting goods. Generally I'm cussing them for pulling out in front of me. The Luvs truck stop is always 2-4 semis deep fueling until now. I pulled in yesterday to fuel and pulled right in no wait at all. Visiting with the manager he said it's been that way for about 10 days now. Couldn't give me a percent decline but said it was bad.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Here’s the part that keeps me up at night:

All we talk about is flattening the curve so we don’t overload medical capacity. And we are constantly shown a graph with the curve peaking at this arbitrary medical capacity.

What are we doing right this second to increase medical capacity EVERYWHERE? That should be the number one focus. The problem isn’t whether people are going to get severely ill or not. The problem is not having enough capacity to treat them.

Politicians are arguing about f***ing airplane emissions instead of building ICU BEDS.

Testing is now nothing more than fear mongering. It takes 2-5 days to get results and they’re only testing the severely ill anyway. Joe blow that has a scratchy throat ain’t getting tested but he sure as hell can spread it.

What happens when we come back out of isolation and we spike right back up again?

What happens when we blow past that arbitrary line of medical capacity anyway? We’re broke and the system is overwhelmed?


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so the limiting factor right now is ventilators, since the sick folks need ventilators and there are not enough of a bunch of people get sick. We can build tent hospitals and some places are doing that, we have plenty of where house space we could convert to hospital wards if need be, but the main limit is ventilators.
Currently multiple companies have come forward asking to build them, and that is being done. So the capacity is going to get there for a lot more sick people, but the process does take time, and some of these quickly built
Machines will be broken, so we can’t just assume they will all be working 100% right away. But the “infrastructure” needed to treat more sick people is going to get bigger for sure.

in the mean time, flatten the curve so we keep demand below capacity.
Hope that helps

 

[fatlander]

so the limiting factor right now is ventilators, since the sick folks need ventilators and there are not enough of a bunch of people get sick. We can build tent hospitals and some places are doing that, we have plenty of where house space we could convert to hospital wards if need be, but the main limit is ventilators.
Currently multiple companies have come forward asking to build them, and that is being done. So the capacity is going to get there for a lot more sick people, but the process does take time, and some of these quickly built
Machines will be broken, so we can’t just assume they will all be working 100% right away. But the “infrastructure” needed to treat more sick people is going to get bigger for sure.

in the mean time, flatten the curve so we keep demand below capacity.
Hope that helps

Exactly right. We need ventilators. Let the federal government pay companies to make them instead sending out checks that a-lot of people don’t need.

We crashed the f***ing economy all the while politicians are arguing about planned parenthood, Obama phones and Green Deals.

Yet we still need ventilators. And if we don’t flatten the curve enough, we still need ventilators. If we flatten it for now and it spikes again, you guessed it; we still need ventilators.


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[5MilesBack]

Yet we still need ventilators.

Or do we? They really need to start those people that actually need admittance on the hydroxychloroquine and a Z-pack and see where that goes. If it works in even most cases, they won't need the ventilators in the numbers they think they will. Give the people the choice......take the drugs "off label" or don't.

Do we even know what the percentage is that actually have needed ventilators?

 

[fatlander]

Or do we? They really need to start those people that actually need admittance on the hydroxychloroquine and a Z-pack and see where that goes. If it works in even most cases, they won't need the ventilators in the numbers they think they will. Give the people the choice......take the drugs "off label" or don't.

Do we even know what the percentage is that actually have needed ventilators?

I say this from the bottom of my heart, I would rather the federal government put the money that is coming to me into a respirator than send it to me. Good Lord willing, I am gainfully employed, and won’t be looking for work anytime soon because of this virus.

That money is going to buy me an elk tag this fall, as long as I’m still employed. And it’s going to do unnecessary stuff like that for sooooo many people that are still employed but fall under the 75k threshold.


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[Shrek]

People not thinking of what it means when people lose their jobs reminds me of this scene.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

The hydroxychloroquine/azithromax treatments are not a real answer but sort of a promise. Trials need to be done to see if there is any effect and if so what is the effect. Anecdotal evidence suggests this may be more preventative as patients with lupus on plaquenil didn’t have infection rates as high in China. So the idea is merited, just u known. Plaquenil isn’t a care free medicine and can have some side effects. Would stink to have a bunch of recovered folks that all have optic neuropathy and have legal blindness. Just don’t know at this point and despite the crisis, this ain’t a time to just Willy Nilly pass out potentially toxic meds.

 

[WannabeHunter]

The hydroxychloroquine/azithromax treatments are not a real answer but sort of a promise. Trials need to be done to see if there is any effect and if so what is the effect. Anecdotal evidence suggests this may be more preventative as patients with lupus on plaquenil didn’t have infection rates as high in China. So the idea is merited, just u known. Plaquenil isn’t a care free medicine and can have some side effects. Would stink to have a bunch of recovered folks that all have optic neuropathy and have legal blindness. Just don’t know at this point and despite the crisis, this ain’t a time to just Willy Nilly pass out potentially toxic meds.

Well said. The combination of the two meds is also highly problematic. Additive side effects can be deadly in someone with an already prolonged QT interval. The small open label study I saw only had 26 patients. Not something I'd want to risk unless there were no other options and I was severely ill.

 

[5MilesBack]

That's why I said "give the patients the choice".........that's not handing it out willy nilly. The world has been using hydroxychloroquine for what........7 decades now? As with all meds there have been some side effects but for a drug that's been used for that long, they can't be that high in incidence or they would have pulled the drug.

The question is........what % of those that get the virus have needed ventilators, and of those how many have actually survived with just using the ventilator? I'm guessing from what we're hearing that the death rate is very high of those that have needed a ventilator. At that point, you've got to try something new.

 

[WannabeHunter]

That's why I said "give the patients the choice".........that's not handing it out willy nilly. The world has been using hydroxychloroquine for what........7 decades now? As with all meds there have been some side effects but for a drug that's been used for that long, they can't be that high in incidence or they would have pulled the drug.

The question is........what % of those that get the virus have needed ventilators, and of those how many have actually survived with just using the ventilator? I'm guessing from what we're hearing that the death rate is very high of those that have needed a ventilator. At that point, you've got to try something new.

I know what you were saying, I wasn't saying you're wrong. Just that the combination of the two is not something to be taken lightly. Of course it's been used for a long time, but not in this setting or this combination. I think we're on the same page. And there's numerous drugs that cause high rates of QT prolongation. We purposefully try to avoid using multiple of those agents at the same time for that exact reason.

 

[Shrek]

I don’t know how many of you here really suffered from the 2008 collapse but I did and so did many of my friends. Two chose to end their life and I contemplated it a night or three. The sooner we can get the economy back moving the better. I don’t know if this treatment or that will work but if millions become unemployed and lose everything there will be thousands of suicides , divorces , broken children from collapsed families. A depression will take over a decade to recover from. The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few. I’m not sure who the many is at this point but I suspect it’s not the most vulnerable to the Chinese virus.

 

[Shraggs]

I do think president has done Pretty good job on a no win situation. The “DOTUS” comment above puzzles me. I also feel he’s signaling that it’s time to start planning for the economic recovery, as I’m not sure this shut down dynamically changes this infection, the hump yes...

I kinda feel he’s been set up politically, dems rarely loose at this stuff. Obstensively, he has chosen to help the heath care delivery industry with a insurmountable challenge and hurt most other industries in the US. That’s a trade I don’t support. Healthcare has way too much power politically over citizens and its welded as such.

once lockdowns are lifted, the economy is in recession it will be election time and there will be plenty of ammo to attack the president on what typically matters most to people and that is the economy.

 

[WCB]

Testing is now nothing more than fear mongering. It takes 2-5 days to get results and they’re only testing the severely ill anyway. Joe blow that has a scratchy throat ain’t getting tested but he sure as hell can spread it.

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I agree with most of what you stated in the rest of your posts. But what i quoted is not true. Just here in MN they have performed about 11,500 tests...with 287 positives (122 of those have recovered) They are testing people with symptoms not just the severely ill. Only 35 have been hospitalized.

People need to realize that there are not 300,000,000 plus tests out there. Not every one needs to get tested. Joe Blow doesn't even need a scratchy throat he could have zero symptoms and be 100% feeling great and still spread it. And just because you get tested doesn't mean you couldn't get it tomorrow.

 

[GraveyardNRSE]

Or do we? They really need to start those people that actually need admittance on the hydroxychloroquine and a Z-pack and see where that goes. If it works in even most cases, they won't need the ventilators in the numbers they think they will. Give the people the choice......take the drugs "off label" or don't.

Do we even know what the percentage is that actually have needed ventilators?

5 miles back I want you to go research ARDS. It stands for acute respiratory distress syndrome. If you have a patient who presents with these systems then the meds wont do shit. This is immediate intubation. Also, you could get a patient that comes to the ICU and they seem to be doing "fair". Then, all of a sudden they decline quick. Most of the people who decline very rapidly either have pneumonia, COPD or they smoke. You cannot limit who gets a vent and who doesn't. When we get through our 40 vents then we're done.

 

[fatlander]

I agree with most of what you stated in the rest of your posts. But what i quoted is not true. Just here in MN they have performed about 11,500 tests...with 287 positives (122 of those have recovered) They are testing people with symptoms not just the severely ill. Only 35 have been hospitalized.

People need to realize that there are not 300,000,000 plus tests out there. Not every one needs to get tested. Joe Blow doesn't even need a scratchy throat he could have zero symptoms and be 100% feeling great and still spread it. And just because you get tested doesn't mean you couldn't get it tomorrow.

I promise you not all states are testing on the same level as others.

Reporting the number sick, and even worse the percentage sick of those that has been tested, is fear mongering to the masses. Unless a person can actually understand and calculate epidemiological statistics, they don’t really need to know those numbers.


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