Vista CEO admits "capacity management"

[Glory]

I will take availably amd higher prices over low prices and out of stock.

 

[Vandy321]

I will take availably amd higher prices over low prices and out of stock.

And next just comes higher prices and out of stock...then it shows up on the shelves again a month later with a 15% increase over the last case you bought, due to artificially limited availability.

 

[QuackAttack]

I am less concerned about pricing than I am about the abject lack of specific loads…12 ga 3.5 in steel just never arrived. WTF…that’s duck season.

Many hunting calibers never came into stock at all…again, so much for your safari or big game hunt.


that’s dangerous for the sport.

im going to start buying Winchester.

 

[def90]

Or start reloading and buy your components from brands not owned by ADG.

Where are you buying primers right now? Lol!

 

[Billy Goat]

And next just comes higher prices and out of stock...then it shows up on the shelves again a month later with a 15% increase over the last case you bought, due to artificially limited availability.

Effective 4/1/2022, CCI, Federal, Hevi–Shot, Remington, and SPEER ammunition will take the following price increases:

Primers – 5%
Powder – 5%
Handgun – 2-8%
Rifle – 3-8%
Shotgun – 3-12%

 

[tdhanses]

And next just comes higher prices and out of stock...then it shows up on the shelves again a month later with a 15% increase over the last case you bought, due to artificially limited availability.

And eventually there will be a ceiling, prices will fall or flatten but don’t expect prices we had for the last 20yrs to return, goes for pretty much everything, we’ve been hit hard with an indirect tax that effects all and everything, we’ll adjust and deal with it but we’ve all just been reduced a few notches in wealth and disposable income.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Where are you buying primers right now? Lol!

Eff that! You think I’m rich or something?! I’m still digging into my stash.

 

[Button]

Where are you buying primers right now? Lol!

I bought mine years ago.

 

[Curhunter]

Does anyone know anything about Gates Capital Management? I was poking around some info on Vista and saw that they were the 3rd largest shareholder. When I try a Google search all I get is a blank screen.

 

[MattB]

Does anyone know anything about Gates Capital Management? I was poking around some info on Vista and saw that they were the 3rd largest shareholder. When I try a Google search all I get is a blank screen.

You might try this: https://www.gatescap.com/cgi-bin/index.pl

 

[AZ8]

Does anyone know anything about Gates Capital Management? I was poking around some info on Vista and saw that they were the 3rd largest shareholder. When I try a Google search all I get is a blank screen.

Their portfolio is vast.

GATES CAPITAL MANAGEMENT, INC. Top 13F Holdings - WhaleWisdom.com

Detailed Profile of GATES CAPITAL MANAGEMENT, INC. portfolio of holdings. SEC Filings include 13F quarterly reports, 13D/G events and more.

whalewisdom.com

 

[Curhunter]

Thanks for the info. I'm not a fan of what Vista has been doing. Doesn't seem good for the overall outdoors industry. When the name Gates comes up it's a red flag to me.

 

[Zappaman]

You CAN'T convince me that the COGS has gone up 100% in 5 (or 10) years in the ammo market. You CAN convince me that there are fewer BIG players in said market.

Companies like RMR bullets are selling bullets made in house for about 25% over a few years ago. Yep, copper went up some as did wages... but not 100% (what a box of ammo is today compared to a few years back).

Let producers from China/Europe come in and ammo would cost 1/2 of what it does today. This is "protectionism" at it's best (worst). Free enterprise practiced correctly, would put pricing AT market. But when you OWN the market (in the US)... we pay $50 a box for 20 shells. And the small guys "follow the leader" in that pricing. Econ: 101 folks.

 

[def90]

I bought mine years ago.

Yeah, I stocked up deep on ammo over the years as well and haven’t had to buy any over the last two years but people are suggesting in this thread that you can beat the current ammo issue by reloading when that is a complete farce. Reloading components are as scarce and expensive right now as ammo in general.

 

[Zappaman]

I hope my long "lost" uncle dies and leaves me 5000 primers this year

 

[MattB]

You CAN'T convince me that the COGS has gone up 100% in 5 (or 10) years in the ammo market. You CAN convince me that there are fewer BIG players in said market.

Companies like RMR bullets are selling bullets made in house for about 25% over a few years ago. Yep, copper went up some as did wages... but not 100% (what a box of ammo is today compared to a few years back).

Let producers from China/Europe come in and ammo would cost 1/2 of what it does today. This is "protectionism" at it's best (worst). Free enterprise practiced correctly, would put pricing AT market. But when you OWN the market (in the US)... we pay $50 a box for 20 shells. And the small guys "follow the leader" in that pricing. Econ: 101 folks.

Looking at one retailer I buy from, they list ammo in stock made in the Philippines, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico, Russia, the Czech Republic, and the US (incl. 3 manus that are not the big 2). It is a pretty international market, although I do not have a sense of market share by country.

 

[Zappaman]

Looking at one retailer I buy from, they list ammo in stock made in the Philippines, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico, Russia, the Czech Republic, and the US (incl. 3 manus that are not the big 2). It is a pretty international market, although I do not have a sense of market share by country.

But let's not forget the "tariffs"... which take "free enterprise" dollars out of the equation. Importers ALSO control bulk coming in... not like we can buy direct. And they get in "trouble" when they don't follow the leaders pricing wise.

Same happened in the tire market the last few years. Hell. it's happening IN the US with the big three meat companies... bacon went from $3 a lb to $6 a lb last six months... BUT my farmer buddy's income didn't double though. So WHERE are those dollars you pay for bacon going??? (hint: fat, rich Wallstreet market controlling guys-- that's where)

 

[OMB]

While I don't like that we basically have a duopoly on hunting ammo in the US, this issue is a lot more complicated than the author would have you believe. Matt Stoller, the author, is a hardcore leftist and isn't exactly a friend of our community per se.

Part of the problem is obvious: we've added around 8 million new gun owners, give or take, since Jan 2019. That's eating up a lot of demand.

Another part is savvy gun owners that have seen this happen before doing the "buy it cheap and stack it deep" approach. I luckily made some huge stocking orders in January 2020 when stuff was cheap and available and now I have probably have more Nosler 300 WM and assorted 5.56 than I'll ever shoot over the next 40 years. I'm still buying AR magazines here and there when I can get PMAG's or OK Industries for less than $10 per because I remember when they were 5 times that amount after Sandy Hook. What am I going to do with 100 30 round magazines? Not sure, but I have them and they're organized so my wife doesn't complain.

Last- based on what I've seen at local gun shops or Cabela's, there's going to be some estate sales in the next 20 years where you'll be able to get some amazing deals. The Boomers that line up at the door on stocking day to pick up their 5 boxes of Winchester white box 9mm and have tens of thousands of rounds on hand will never run through that.

 

[Zappaman]

Matt Stoller (whoever he is- no offense, leftist or rightist)... he a legitimate point. Yes there will be "deals" for those who spend the time. But the general market is what it is... and it reflects a tendency towards market control by a few who are setting prices (by limiting production).

This is nothing new... its just now coming around to the ammo market and we'll see what happens- I don't know the future (*but I've lived in the past and know what copper, brass and labor cost then... and now).

 

[Flyjunky]

Yeah, I stocked up deep on ammo over the years as well and haven’t had to buy any over the last two years but people are suggesting in this thread that you can beat the current ammo issue by reloading when that is a complete farce. Reloading components are as scarce and expensive right now as ammo in general.

In the past 6 months I've found 21lbs of RL26, 16lbs of H1000, 12lbs of N565, 1250 Berger 156's, and just recently 1250 Berger 215's. All of this in addition to the RL26 and H1000 I already had on hand. Yes, it is harder to find but not impossible.

Prices are high but what are you going to do, not shoot?