Victory TKO w/ Outsert Issue after the shot

[MallardMaster]

I am looking for some opinions on what happened after the shot with my arrow and outsert. I shoot a Victory Archery TKO Green 300 Spine Arrow with 125gr Iron Will broadhead. I shot a buck yesterday and had a complete pass through and found my arrow in this condition. It just seems odd that this would happen due to hitting a rib bone. These arrows are advertised as being tough (better be for the price!) and to see the outsert pealed like that. There were also no rocks in the area and was in a Red Pine grove.
Just wondering if anyone else has encountered anything weird like this in the past. Was thinking that maybe the 125gr head was a little too heavy for the 300 spine arrow, and the impact may have caused this, but that doesn't seem right. Figured I would check the esteemed opinions of the Rocksliders before contacting Victory and the Pro Shop.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've never liked outserts because of problems like this, especially if the outserts are made of aluminum. Even when they don't completely break like yours did, you can still end up with bent outserts that cause the arrows to wobble.

I use brass HIT's in my RIP TKO's and haven't had any issues with them even on hard hits.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Your broadhead isn't too heavy, your outsert is too weak. I expect you would've had the same failure even with a 100 gr head. The outsert sticks out in front of the shaft a pretty good distance, and that extra distance creates extra torque on the outsert-to-shaft connection when the arrow hits something at an angle. A brass or steel outsert might have fared better than your (what appears to be) aluminum one, but IMO the best option for .204" arrows is a hidden insert (HIT), which puts the connection point well inside the shaft. If you want to make a change and can pull or cut your outserts off, switching to a brass Easton HIT or steel Iron Will HIT would keep your total front end weight about the same.

 

[nexus]

Looking at the pictures, the 3rd picture shows the carbon shaft to be undamaged where it meets and enters the outsert. The strength of carbon when placing a force across the arrow is less than what aluminum will take before tearing (not bending), something must have damaged/weakened the aluminum before the impact. Also, the absolute straight edge produced in the tear may indicate the collar had been cut/scored earlier - like if one shot multiple arrows with broadheads into a target. This would score the collar and make a weak point for the cross force to tear the aluminum (not bend) and still not provide enough resistance to break or damage the carbon. Again, I base all of the above on the pictures, and obviously could not speak to the damage being the "true" result of manufacturing or user error. However, that is the first I have seen that the aluminum tore instead of bending. But, then I find myself learning something everyday...

 

[CApighunter]

No reason not to use a HIT in a .204 shaft. Add a collar if you feel like it. I use the Iron Will HIT and collar on the 250 spine RIP TKOs.

 

[jmez]

Welcome to outserts.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Need to use HITs… and don’t take advice from anyone saying, “I’ve never had issues with outserts” or “I never have problems with FMJs bending”

 

[nphunter]

Agree with the above, take out your nocks, run a drill bit down the back, nock out all of those outserts and toss them in the trash. HIT's are the only way to go for .204 or .166 arrows, outserts just suck period, there isn't an outsert that is stronger than a HIT. I have built two sets of RIP TKO's, one had brass inserts and 25gr IW collars and my current arrows have 100gr Stainless HIT's and 25gr collars. These arrows are super durable compared to other arrows I've used in the past, even on direct rock hits the worst I've done is broke collars but the arrow was find under the collar. The only arrows I have ruined were broken off inside of elk.

 

[Marine4life]

That’s a tough shaft to have the outsert peel like that and no shaft damage. Like others have said the weak point is the outsert. I run 100 gr brass easton HITS with my RIP TKO. I add this tophat sleeve to give the broadhead a little more contact and help protect the end of the shaft. Hope this helps.

TopHat Protector Ring

Protective sleeve that can be used on either the front or the back of the shaft Prevents the shaft from splintering, or cracking upon impacts Lipped design provides a square base for inserts points, and nocks to fit on Machined from stainless steel Weight: 3 - 5 grains Quantity: 12-pack

www.lancasterarchery.com

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MallardMaster]

This is fantastic stuff guys. I really appreciate the advice on the situation. I guess I will need to get me some new arrows next year with a 50gr HIT and collar.

 

[Shadowcaster]

You may even get lucky like I did, shop I bought my RIP TKO's from even bought the outserts back from me!

 

[GatorGar247]

I've had brass hits peel out the side of a axis arrow.. the issue I have is I can't remove hits.. I don’t like that. I shoot 12 to 15 animals a year and have never bent a stainless black eagle or ethics outsert.. but they are only 1/4 in past the end of the arrow..

 

[5MilesBack]

I've had brass hits peel out the side of a axis arrow.. the issue I have is I can't remove hits..

I've used HIT's in seven different types of .204" arrows over the last 15 years and have never had that happen to any of them. Regardless of whether I'm using HIT's or other inserts, I don't want to be able to remove them. If I can remove them, then they can probably remove themselves with hard hits, and I don't want that. Once I install them, they better stay where I put them or I need better epoxy. I think that's one reason why some people have a problem with HIT's.......they bust loose, and then the only thing holding their FP's and BH's is the arrow shaft. That's the only way the end is going to mushroom is if the HIT breaks loose.

 

[Beendare]

Welcome to outserts.

.

 

[msalm]

So the ‘new’ victory half out system looks different/upgraded to me and not like this design. The ones I recently got have an insert that is epoxied inside the shaft well past the collar and seems as if it would be much stronger. Yes, no???

 

[4fletch]

I am looking for some opinions on what happened after the shot with my arrow and outsert. I shoot a Victory Archery TKO Green 300 Spine Arrow with 125gr Iron Will broadhead. I shot a buck yesterday and had a complete pass through and found my arrow in this condition. It just seems odd that this would happen due to hitting a rib bone. These arrows are advertised as being tough (better be for the price!) and to see the outsert pealed like that. There were also no rocks in the area and was in a Red Pine grove.
Just wondering if anyone else has encountered anything weird like this in the past. Was thinking that maybe the 125gr head was a little too heavy for the 300 spine arrow, and the impact may have caused this, but that doesn't seem right. Figured I would check the esteemed opinions of the Rocksliders before contacting Victory and the Pro Shop.

A lot can happen on the way through and as/after an arrow exits. A lot can happen as it enters. Perhaps the head was forced at a rather abrupt angle while the shaft was kept at another. If I didnt know better, and I dont, i would say that sure looks like it split on a manufacturing seam.
There is a lot of flex and bones, angles on entry and exit that can make weird things happen. Could just be a fluke. If it was me i would send one through some plywood straight on and at an angle and see if i could replicate the issue.

 

[westrnwild]

I used those shafts for one season. Didn't matter what I shot. They all did that. The guy at my pro shop claimed they are soft arrows and just market they are tough. Not sure if that's true. But they all broke. Two elk. Two broken shafts exactly where your pics are. Switched to different arrow and outsert combo and haven't had that issue. IMO VAP is marketed well. I never thought they shot that great and they def didn't perform that great. No science behind my comment. Just experience with them.

 

[CodeMonkey]

I just had to replace the field point on one of my RIP TKOs with ethics system. I had hit the rebar, ground, etc. with this arrow so many times the field point became blunt and the arrow was hitting 2'' low at 50 yards.

Highly recommend the ethics system. I have one season of experience with it so far and have pulled an arrow out of a fence post that still spun true.

 

[5MilesBack]

Highly recommend the ethics system. I have one season of experience with it so far and have pulled an arrow out of a fence post that still spun true.

This is just my opinion, but that should go without saying. My RIP TKO's do the same with 75gr HIT's. I will admit that I don't completely dislike the Ethics 100gr SS half outs, I have three arrows with those installed and they seem to work just as well as with the HIT's.......but I really like smooth streamlined arrows that the HIT's provide.

 

[CodeMonkey]

This is just my opinion, but that should go without saying. My RIP TKO's do the same with 75gr HIT's. I will admit that I don't completely dislike the Ethics 100gr SS half outs, I have three arrows with those installed and they seem to work just as well as with the HIT's.......but I really like smooth streamlined arrows that the HIT's provide.

I think HITs with a footer is a bomb proof set up (at least as bomb proof as you can get before you start breaking the arrow elsewhere). If I find any issues with extended testing on this dozen arrows I'll be moving to that system. That said, with Ethics I get less cost per dozen and only need to source one SKU vs. two (inserts + footers). I'm lucky enough to where my shop seems to always have the Ethics system in stock.

I will say the one thing that stinks about the Ethics system is the overall weight. Using the Iron Will licensed titanium HITs you can get something bullet proof without having to hang a ton of weight off the end of your arrow.