Unpopular Opinion: I don't like Dave Ramsey

[22lr]

He is extreme in his views, but I think that's because the average person won't change anything about their spending without going to an extreme lifestyle change.

His personality is also pretty blunt, but thats why he is so well known.

If you struggle with money, his system works and can help. Plus, honestly I find it refreshing to listen to a financial advisor/mentor who will help people dig out and not just declare bankruptcy and start over. I just don't care for his brash personality, so I listen in small doses.

 

[Glory]

His way is the safe way. I stick my neck out from time to time with debt. Always feels good when I get on the other side of it and everything’s paid for.

 

[fwafwow]

My kids each took a personal finance class in high school, and the teacher used Dave Ramsey’s book as the resource. I don’t have a problem with anyone warning of the risks of debt, but he goes too far with some of his debt and investment statements, some of which are referenced above. I offered to visit the class to discuss the other sides to Dave’s point of view, or to discuss them privately with the teacher. Crickets.

 

[aaronmn]

An employee of mine became debt free through Dave. His advice is excellent for a certain % of our population, but like most things, isn't the best fit for everyone.

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[fngTony]

He’s a condescending prick out of touch with the working class. Some principles are sound but not earth shattering, mostly repackaged common sense. The way he’s down talked to his callers (I used to watch his YouTube channel) and bs job advice at times I don’t care for him.

 

[Silveroddo]

He's good for 95% of the population who have absolutely no concept of how money works.

Lots of good thoughts that I agree with, but this sticks out to me, we've raised several generations of financially illiterate people, our education system has failed in this department, but it has created a bunch of good little consumers that has propped up our economy on the backs of their debt.......... If half the population had a clue they wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

 

[Russp17]

Yeah I agree. I think his advice is sound for getting out of debt, but to make money he is horrible he is also a jerk. I also don't get how he can market so much and people spend money for his products.

Here is his advice in one sentence. Don't have debt.

 

[Fatcamp]

He has helped tens, if not hundreds of thousands, of people become debt free with a faith based approach that encourages personal responsibility. You can nip around the edges but in the end he has a fantastic record of success.

Is his approach mathematically superior. No. He acknowledges that.

Is his teaching useful to people who use credit responsibly and profit from it? Probably not. He acknowledges that.

Is he kind of a jerk? I think so and he has admitted as much.

Seems like no matter who or what it is social media has provided a platform for people to gather and raise their electronic torches and pitchforks. Just how it is.

 

[seldomseensmith]

Is he one of those tv chefs? Never heard of him.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

[adam_c]

I've met Dave Ramsey. I attended his financial counselor training in 2004. He's absolutely ligit. His story in a nutshell is that he became a millionaire using the standard leveraging debt model and then lost it all. Then he started over and became a multi-millionaire without debt and managed to keep it.

His message is absolutely for the masses because that's the larger audience. On the rare occasion when someone calls in with a question about commercial real estate, he suddenly switches to business jargon mode and they have a conversation about concepts that sound like jibberish to me. But that makes for very boring radio, so you never see that side of his knowledge base. And, as he points out, "if you don't like it, you can always go back!".

Personally, I am 43 and I haven't owned a credit card since 2002. It's been 10 years since I've had a credit score; I'm officially off the grid. I haven't felt it necessary to follow his, or any other expert's, program for wealth building, but I can absolutely say that his philosophy changed my family tree.

 

[Raghornkiller]

I don't listen to him,he refuses to acknowledge debt can be used as an asset.I've heard him advising people they should sell rental properties that are generating positive cash flow simply because they have a mortgage on it.His advice is ok for people that are truly clueless about money and don't know the difference between good and bad debt

 

[tdhanses]

Dave must be struggling, he just laid off a bunch of people back in Oct.

 

[michaelc10]

I did the program years ago, it worked for me, I'm debt free for about 7 years now and have been able to save quite a bit, without being stressed out if the job market falls out. I may not be rich by most people's ideas., but I'm stress free all my debt is paid off and I'm able to do the things I want to do and retire early. That's more important to me, and it's biblical to, which is also important to me.

 

[MattB]

The other thread got me thinking and I'm just wondering if anyone else feels the same. I'm just stirring the pot a bit, but I love talking finances.

Anyone else here despise Dave Ramsey's advice for people with a handle on their finances? I can't imagine I'm the only guy, I'm sure it's an unpopular opinion but here are my main reasons.
1.) His early advice is good for people struggling, but he's snake oily to me when he talks about using only his endorsed local providers including financial planners (which have no fiduciary responsibility to their clients) or real estate agents. You think his trusted "partners" actually do anything other than pay his company for that certification? They end up getting paid more when they pick high commission funds (less money for you)
2.) He advises against ETF's even though they generally beat his mutual funds when you include fees all f-ing day.
3.) The way he treats people with different opinions of his is ridiculous. They're an idiot or a moron if they don't think his advice is gold.
4.) His opinion that essentially all debt is bad other than your personal home. I have a ton of mortgages on investment property that pay me every single month, couldn't purchase them without debt.
5.) You likely won't get 12% returns in the stock market, especially with his mutual fund ideas when you count fees.
6.) Credit cards are not evil, personal control is. I could take my family to Hawaii every year on credit card rewards just from my business on things I need to spend money on.

People who he's great for.
1.) People struggling with their finances.

He'd tear apart my portfolio, but my net worth would be about 30% of what it currently is if I would've went his route 4 years ago instead of buying my first rental. I'm a much bigger fan of the choose FI, biggerpockets, bogleheads, or mr money moustache train of thought.

You (and I) are not his target market. I don't subscribe to a lot of what he preaches, but it is just the medicine for a lot of Americans.

 

[MattB]

For crying out loud, stop sounding so reasonable.

You made some very good points.

One other thing.... A house is not an investment, it is a necessary expense. Anything that is not an investment should not be leveraged. We all had to have a home mortgage at one point, but pay it off asap. Like you said, go put a mortgage on an income producing property. Leverage increases returns, unless it is not an investment.

A house is absolutely an investment, although I do not consider it in the same category as an income-producing property.

 

[BeaverHunter]

He said he doesn’t like you either.

 

[texag10]

One other thing.... A house is not an investment, it is a necessary expense. Anything that is not an investment should not be leveraged. We all had to have a home mortgage at one point, but pay it off asap. Like you said, go put a mortgage on an income producing property. Leverage increases returns, unless it is not an investment.

A house is an asset with a high probability of appreciation and the utility of giving you a place to live. Why wouldn't I leverage it if the numbers work?

I could pay off my mortgage right now and have money left over, all without touching my emergency fund or retirement accounts, but why would I? Being VERY conservative, I expect the return on my investments to be 2% greater than my interest rate, and they will likely be 3-5% greater. I've run this through basic, straight-line time value of money calculations and a few different types of planning software that use Monte Carlo analysis. Paying off my mortgage with my current situation would be a very bad move.

What no one else seems to mention when this comes up: Let's assume I'm a relatively responsible, normal person with a mortgage with 15 years left, a 6 month emergency fund, and a decent amount in a pretax 401k. If I start aggressively paying down my mortgage, the bank doesn't give a shit when I lose my job or am unable to work 2 years later and have burned through my emergency fund, but if I'd saved and invested those extra mortgage payments I have a much larger runway that buys me time without the massive tax hit of dipping into retirement accounts pre 59.5.

 

[ChromeKype]

Cash envelopes and the baby steps. Paid off 60k in consumer and college debt this year. Debt free. Every 20 something should at least listen to Dave’s system.

Anyone can get a loan these days and start a side rental hustle, doesn’t mean you’re smarter than those who follow Dave’s steps.

I don’t follow all of Dave’s advice and have a solid portfolio that includes single stocks, but I am debt free other than rent and I’m saving to buy a home on a 15 year with the payment being 25% of my take home pay.

I’ll have a paid off home and hopefully over a million invested by 47.

Different strokes for different folks. Dave helped me, and you won’t lump me in with that “99% oF tHe FiNaNcIAllY iLLiTErATE poPuLATion” BS


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hodgeman]

I used his program to dig out of a giant hole after adopting my son. Ramsey's program is very good at getting people out of debt and fundamentally changing how they think about money.

In a country where the average 50 year old has a net worth under $150k and the average 65 year old has accumulated just north of $200k at the end of their career...I'd say we need to think differently about money.

I don't think Ramsey's advice is the best for building substantial wealth, but then again...he's a radio host and his content is 90 second segments.

If you want to get out of debt...read Dave Ramsey.
If you want to get rich...read Jack Bogle- But do it in that order!

 

[Carpenterant]

I like Dave Ramsey. His advice is the most conservative/ least risk way to approach finance. I don’t agree with him about everything, but there is wisdom in his advice. I personally manage my own finances and will never follow his investment advice. If you listen to him he speaks wisdom and truth into a ton of people’s lives. I don’t typically dislike people I disagree with about something

real question: do also disagree with him about insurance? What about the working together with your spouse? What about savings rate more important then which investment?