Any Civil Attorneys here? Advice

[JF_Idaho]

@arrowjunkie

My son actually has a (very hard to read) copy of the original police report that the guy had sent to him months back. It's hard to read, but is close to reading as being abandoned for a year+ in someone else's property before being reported stolen.

@Reburn

There was a time......


It's just a crappy situation. Can't really be mad at either of them. It just is irritating. While by all means this guy should get his car back, there was a lot of "good faith" financial benefit he has received. The car was a piece of s when it was stolen. It's been painted and had numerous other work done. Must be nice.

 

[JF_Idaho]

I’m not a lawyer but I’ve watched a lot of TV. Unless the lawyer you hire is actually a personal friend, you’ll spend more than 2700. Do you need a lawyer to take the guy to small claims court? If you can get on one of those court TV shows don’t they pay you for appearing? Win win!!!

No you don't need a lawyer, although you can. TN is up to 25k in small claims.

And I hear you. I'm really trying to Perry Mason this situation

 

[hereinaz]

I am an attorney on the internet…

Pay for a consultation, let a local attorney tell you options, maybe you can do something easily.

Beyond that, I would not waste money on it.

Sucks, totally. He learned a lesson that cost some people 10x and 100x later in life.

 

[Dan-o]

As a bona fide purchaser, your son should have recourse against those in the title chain that made the fraudulent conveyances. I'd sue every name you have, including the guy they just gave the car back to and let them all show up. No way id let it go. I'd hire an attorney if you don't think you can handle it yourself.

It will likely come down to whether or not there was real or contructive notice that the car was stolen.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Another good reason to keep stuff off the internet.

My first thought when reading this.

I’m betting that this was a scam all along and your son is hosed.

 

[Dan-o]

bona fide purchaser

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I am an attorney on the internet…

Pay for a consultation, let a local attorney tell you options, maybe you can do something easily.

Beyond that, I would not waste money on it.

Sucks, totally. He learned a lesson that cost some people 10x and 100x later in life.

What’s the lesson though (other than don’t show off your shit on the Internet???), don’t buy used vehicles??? He had the title in hand, that wouldn’t raise any red flags to me. I sold a vehicle a few months back and we just filled out the title work on kitchen counter and called it good, same when I bought my last used vehicles. Just fill out the transfer date, price info etc and take it to the dmv to get your new title.

If I were in this situation I’d probably “lose” the keys and title until I had some real clarification, I certainly wouldn’t be giving them back, I also wouldn’t expect to get anything out of it.

I also wouldn’t have kept that car in an easy to take place if I knew there was something strange going on.

 

[JF_Idaho]

What’s the lesson though (other than don’t show off your shit on the Internet???), don’t buy used vehicles??? He had the title in hand, that wouldn’t raise any red flags to me. I sold a vehicle a few months back and we just filled out the title work on kitchen counter and called it good, same when I bought my last used vehicles. Just fill out the transfer date, price info etc and take it to the dmv to get your new title.

If I were in this situation I’d probably “lose” the keys and title until I had some real clarification, I certainly wouldn’t be giving them back, I also wouldn’t expect to get anything out of it.

I also wouldn’t have kept that car in an easy to take place if I knew there was something strange going on.

I told him definitely hold on to the title for a case one way or another.

He didn't think anything strange was going on after the police gave him the all clear. He just figured he was good to go.

And you're not wrong. He actually moved out of where he was living and is staying with a buddy in the same complex. What were the odds? To be fair, he was putting it up for sale so we're thankful that he didn't sell it and then get sued himself for 9-10k.

I don't know about the 18 year long con though. Might be a bit of a stretch haha

 

[TaperPin]

If someone steals your car, you’d want it back. Duh. Anyone who wants to make it as hard as humanly possible for the original owner to get his car back, isn’t much better than whoever snatched it originally.

A title issued based on a fraud won’t hold up. Same for any number of titles over the years - each one is based on the original fraud. Same for buying anything used that doesn’t need a title - if it was hot, you never owned it.

I’d sue the guy you bought it from. He didn’t know, but he never owned it title based on fraud or not, and would have to give your money back.

 

[pacoalcracker]

I went thru this about 25 years ago. You bought stolen property, regardless of whether you knew or not. Time passed does not matter. I lost the motorcycle and lost my money. They prosecuted the thief, but he didn't have anything to his name for me to take. Live and learn. Legal fees add up really quick, so it better be worth it.

 

[Dan-o]

If someone steals your car, you’d want it back. Duh. Anyone who wants to make it as hard as humanly possible for the original owner to get his car back, isn’t much better than whoever snatched it originally.

A title issued based on a fraud won’t hold up. Same for any number of titles over the years - each one is based on the original fraud. Same for buying anything used that doesn’t need a title - if it was hot, you never owned it.

I’d sue the guy you bought it from. He didn’t know, but he never owned it title based on fraud or not, and would have to give your money back.

Incorrect.The law is the law. The bonafide purchaser has a protected interest in the purchased vehicle. The Bonafide purchaser, the original owner (also has a claim for damages) both should be made whole, and the fraudster is held accountable.

Sue them all. Everyone goes into court, presents their evidence, which is where these things are supposed to be sorted out. Bonafide purchaser gets the car or the money. Original owner gets the car or the money from the fraudster (unless he's judgment proof). Actually, they probably shouldn't have taken the car without litigation having taken place and a civil court order.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I wonder. If the car had been sitting for awhile, maybe not reported stolen, maybe somebody could apply for a lost title and have it, take the vehicle then it gets reported stolen. Could fall through the cracks for awhile until it pops up on an Internet forum.

Where I live there is lots of “abandoned” shit, boats etc that people still “want” even though it’s been out in the woods for ages.

I have a friend that had some similar issues, he bought a house and on that property was an 18” jet boat (no motor or trailer”. The guy he bought the house from didn’t know much about it, it had been on the property when he bought it (maybe important to know that both of these guys owned the house for less than 3 years”.

Anyways, my buddy sold the boat basically to get it hauled off his property, I think he got like 3k for it, and didn’t think much of it. He ended up selling the house a year later. Anyways a while later some guy calls asking where his boat is….

Apparently the guy was “storing” his boat at a friend’s house since he moved away, the house changed hands a few times and the boat just stayed there until it got sold. I know that my buddy applied for a lost title and was able to get one since the boat had sat for so long and wasn’t reported missing or stolen.

 

[JF_Idaho]

@TaperPin @pacoalcracker

While I agree with your sentiment, you're making it sound cut and dry.

If it was as simple as he bought it and the cops showed up and confiscated, that would be hard to disagree with.

The cops came and concluded their investigation that it was my son's car and all was good. A significant amount of money was put into the car after that.

Where it falls in the legal world is one thing. Having let's say 2k stolen from you and being returned 12k is beyond justice.

 

[Rotnguns]

Thanks for sharing this unfortunate event. I wonder if a title search at the onset would have helped?

 

[Jmort1754]

I mean I am all for putting in the hood, Memphis and letting it ride.

That said, if the car was "abandoned" in the original police report as it actually the first guys in the first place.?

 

[Will_m]

If the car was stolen, he never had good title. This is law regardless of his own innocence or knowledge. He would have a claim against the person who sold him the car, but that’s a waste to try and chase and no attorney—especially a good attorney—is going to take this case.

 

[BFR]

Not a lawyer but just curious.
I would have thought that the individual claiming it was stolen would have had insurance on it, isn’t it required?. If so didn’t the insurance cover his loss? That would make the vehicle the property of the insurance company not the individual. The insurance company should have been making the claim to the police.

 

[LCV]

If the car was stolen, he never had good title. This is law regardless of his own innocence or knowledge. He would have a claim against the person who sold him the car, but that’s a waste to try and chase and no attorney—especially a good attorney—is going to take this case.

This is a small claims issue if the limit in TN is $25k as op stated. No attorney necessary

 

[Robobiss]

Not a lawyer but just curious.
I would have thought that the individual claiming it was stolen would have had insurance on it, isn’t it required?. If so didn’t the insurance cover his loss? That would make the vehicle the property of the insurance company not the individual. The insurance company should have been making the claim to the police.

This is my question as well.

The “original” owner probably hit the megabucks on this car between the insurance and now getting it “re gifted” to him by the police.

I’d bet my hat he will offload it quickly before anyone notices.

 

[Marble]

Just looking for some basic advice on how to proceed here.

The story:

My son bought a classic car (2024) from a private party seller. Titled, etc. Got it titled in his name, registered, insured, etc. Everything legit. No vin swap or anything like that.

A few months later after posting on some forums he got a message on Facebook from a guy claiming he thought it was his car that had been stolen in 2007. Didn't see the message for a couple months. Didn't respond.

Mid-2024 gets a message from his roommate that the police were there and checking the car. Calls the investigating officer back and they tell him the guy from Facebook called them about the stolen car. They checked it out, and it is the reported car. They tell him after investigating that he (my son) is the titled owner of the car and that it's settled, don't worry about it.

Over 6 months or so he proceeds to work on the car. Has some back and forth messages with the previous owner over Facebook where the guy even admits the police told him it's my kids car. Offers to buy it back, etc.

A week ago my son comes home, car is gone. Police took it. Returned to the original owner. Investigating officer says it popped on nicb, won't even let my kid get his personal stuff out of the car. Seems suspect that through multiple transactions, including one through a dealer that the person who sold to my son bought it from, multiple registrations and insurance that it doesn't pop on nicb. Even when the police did their initial investigation into the car.

The previous owner messages my kid asking for the keys and title to the car. He responds I have no problem with that if you'll pay me for the upgrades I have made to the car. He understands the loss for the car itself. Guy asks my son to send him receipts. He sends them totaling about $2700. Guy blocks him.

Is there any legal recourse here?

I was an auto theft detective for 12 years. My .02...

You're screwed...his only recourse is to go back through the people he purchased it from and hope in the paperwork they have something was glaring enough for them to suspect the vehicle maybe stolen. However, I never saw anyone be successful with this.

For it to fly under the radar all this time, no one had insured it since it waa stolen. That's what NICB is for.

Your insurance will not help.

The DA prosecuting needs to be contacted and anything your son can prove that he purchased for the car should be returned. I did this several times for people. It will be a long process. You may or may not need an attorney. Kind of depends on the value of said upgrades.

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