UM Tikka rings are not recommended for cartridges larger than 7mm PRC?

[Machingeaneer]

I wonder if they aren't trying to push some sales towards the more expensive "premier rings", they even have "magnum security" in the description for those. I have a hard time believing 4 screws holding a pic rail is stronger than any direct clamp type.

 

[left hunter]

that was definitely not part of the description when I bought my first 2 sets when they were first released. That doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside

 

[Kauaihunter]

7mag pushing 150’s at 3150fps, no issues yet. Have switched between 30mm and 1” rings and used the same pins. They seem to be some grade of stainless, slightly magnetic. Have them on my .308 and 6.5 too.

 

[DisplacedHusky]

I don’t recall seeing this on the webpage when I purchased my two sets of UM rings. Would like to see/hear what made them add that disclaimer.

For those of you who experienced bent recoil pins, did you notice a zero shift?

I would like to know when they added that disclaimer, because I don’t remember it being there when I bought my two pair.

 

[Marbles]

For the record, I would still use UM rings without concern. Until this thread I did not really think much about the bent pin, it is a very thin piece of steel and supplied at our (Rokslide users) request for convenience. Screws should be nothing more than a clamp and the friction between clamped surfaces is what provides strength, the screw itself should not be subject to sheer force, the use of those small threaded holes for a pin to hold sheer is a convenience with sacrifices in durability.

If the bent pin is a concern, then limit placement to positions that don't use the threaded recoil pin.

Intriguing -- must be some serious force involved.

Weight of scope, weight of rifle, height of rings?

Total weight 8 lbs 11 oz, low rings, SWFA 3-9 scope. Suppressed. Shooting 108 gr bullets at 2800 fps with 41 gr charge. I used 50 in.lbs on the rail clamp screws, action is cerakoted.

I think that about covers the possible variables.

I don’t recall seeing this on the webpage when I purchased my two sets of UM rings. Would like to see/hear what made them add that disclaimer.

For those of you who experienced bent recoil pins, did you notice a zero shift?

No perceptible change in zero.

I edited my post above to add that I've seen nothing on the site that specifies the recoil pin material. I've only seen aluminum on the page, so that's what I assume they're made of. I could be completely wrong though.

Pins are definitely steel, look to be stainless steel to me.

 

[Marbles]

Ok, I dug them out of the drawer, bend is less that I said, I can see it, but if I didn't know it was there I would not notice just holding them in hand. It is slightly enough I don't think it would show up in a picture.

One ring has a clear mark in the anodizing where it rode against the pin. Perhaps I set the rings up such that initially only one pin took the load.

If I remember correctly, it was the forward pin. But, clearly my memory isn't perfect and I did not find it remarkable enough to document anything at the time.

 

[nm.otter]

Thanks.

A lightweight, not-unbalanced setup -- yet it noticeably bent some fairly tough steel. Wild.

Edit: OK, maybe not so wild -- but indictive of the forces involved in basic operation of the rifle and optic as a system

Oh, right -- Rokslide tests.

 

[Ryan Avery]

This information is new to me as well, and it doesn’t make any sense. I haven’t encountered any issues with these rings when they are properly installed on .300 WSM, 7 Rem Mag, 6.5 SAUM, and three 6UM barrels. However, I have noticed problems when customers do not tighten the clamping screws correctly.

 

[5811]

I wonder if the receiver finish/material makes a big difference on friction, i.e., bead blasted stainless vs cerakote vs blued?

 

[Marbles]

I wonder if the receiver finish/material makes a big difference on friction, i.e., bead blasted stainless vs cerakote vs blued?

My guess is that it does. Nitride would likely provide the least resistance to movement.

 

[Kauaihunter]

I have removed and reinstalled a couple of sets of UM rings between a Blued .270 and a Stainless 7mag, .308 and 6.5CM. Currently running three sets now as the .270 was sold and don’t plan on changing them out.

Not claiming or saying that this is the best way or even the correct way but this is how I install all of mine. As always YMMV.

Cleaned/degreased all contact surfaces of the rings and receiver with alcohol. Clean the threads on the base screws and apply a small drop of blue loctite or vibratite. Lightly oiled the clamping surface of the ring bases and the groove on the action. Small drop of thread locker on the threaded pins and screwed them in as far as they would go, then used a small pliers with a rag to not mar the pins and just gave them a little twist to make sure they are fully seated. Pushed forward on the base to engage the pin with some force and snugged the screws up slowly and evenly, just to make contact. Next, I torqued the screws to 25in/lbs still applying pressure and then increased torque to about 40 then 55 in steps.

My 7mag has been at just over 9lbs total weight and is currently at 7lbs 4oz. The scopes are a 30mm at 28oz and a 1” at 16oz.

Some or none of this may be required but no issues and these rifles are for hunting and two of them are taken on a plane, twice a year for off island hunting trips.

 

[kkp005]

This information is new to me as well, and it doesn’t make any sense. I haven’t encountered any issues with these rings when they are properly installed on .300 WSM, 7 Rem Mag, 6.5 SAUM, and three 6UM barrels. However, I have noticed problems when customers do not tighten the clamping screws correctly.

I’ve got a few sets and never had any issues.. what are they doing to clamp incorrectly ?

 

[SDHNTR]

Isn’t the clamping force on the dovetail alone supposed to be enough to hold it? I thought the pins weren’t even necessary.

 

[swavescatter]

This information is new to me as well, and it doesn’t make any sense.

It's like finding your spouse's secret Reddit account. Betrayal. Confusion.

Please confront Jake about this on the podcast so we can all watch the drama unfold.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Isn’t the clamping force on the dovetail alone supposed to be enough to hold it? I thought the pins weren’t even necessary.

On my .223 and 6CM, I don't have any pins installed. Thousands of rounds have been fired between them.

 

[Ryan Avery]

It's like finding your spouse's secret Reddit account. Betrayal. Confusion.

Please confront Jake about this on the podcast so we can all watch the drama unfold.

HAHA! That was actually funny.. Good job.

Outside of Rokstoks, I have little to do with UM. I have way too many other things on my plate.

 

[SDHNTR]

Odd choice in cartridge to use as a recoil benchmark. Something that just showed up yesterday is the standard? And especially something so benign as the 7prc! I could understand a .416 rem mag or something similar, but if they are having problems at the prc level that must indicate yet another failure point has been discovered.

What about the 7RM? What about the 30-06? Its recoil is similar, or even hot loads in a .270-308?

 

[Ryan Avery]

I’ve got a few sets and never had any issues.. what are they doing to clamp incorrectly ?

From what I have seen, people don't torque them correctly.

 

[Salmon River Solutions]

There have been issues with larger cartridges like 300 WSM 300 win mag with the tikka rings. It has to do with rifle weight, scope weight, amount of powder, etc. But some have been slipping and pushing the pins.

The pins are steel, but soft.

There are slight redesigns in the works at the moment. And when proven out they will hold up to whatever you can run with a Tikka action.

Not to sound like Silencer Co with the Scythe, but the problem is much less than 1%.

Ken

 

[Marbles]

There have been issues with larger cartridges like 300 WSM 300 win mag with the tikka rings. It has to do with rifle weight, scope weight, amount of powder, etc. But some have been slipping and pushing the pins.

The pins are steel, but soft.

There are slight redesigns in the works at the moment. And when proven out they will hold up to whatever you can run with a Tikka action.

Not to sound like Silencer Co with the Scythe, but the problem is much less than 1%.

Ken

Good to hear.

I have to agree with @SDHNTR that using a cartridge leaves a lot of ambiguity In the benchmark. Specifying a recoil impulse as well would be helpful as that accounts for rifle weight, charge weight, and bullet weight much better than a head stamp.

Have you thought about redesigning the pins to be more like a socket head screw? Have them sit lower, the head would support the shaft and avoid bending, and the friction between the head and top of the rail should protect the screw from some of the sheer forces. A #6 48 round socket cap screw would probably work.

Of course, the slots in the ring bases would need modification.