UM Tikka bolt handles

[mxgsfmdpx]

Here's an update on using Loctite 480.

TLDR: I didn't move fast enough, and now have a ball sticking off the end of the exposed threaded area. If I can't fix, then I've possibly just destroyed a UM bolt handle!

Long version: Loctite 480 (and 380) state 90 seconds:

View attachment 791644

90 seconds is not the full story, and easy to use ... not so much. Here's what happened: I degreased UM bolt thread and inside knob (a fair amount of grease/oil, so don't skip this step!).

Applied 480, and went to assemble. Ball caught strongly on first quarter turn that I thought it must have been cross-threaded. I quickly removed and reattempted. Same outcome. Removed and reattempted - when I felt it catch, I knew it wasn't cross-threaded, so started screwing on with as much hand strength possible. Ball fully caught in perhaps only one turn, and was locked in place. Wrench and pliers couldn't remove.

I had a second handle and knob. This time, degreased and tested dry assembly a few times, making sure no cross-threading and perfect line-up. Applied Loctite 480. Went to screw on an the slight catch again - then screwed it on as fast as I could. Halfway along the short threaded section, this became hard. Had to use all my hand strength to get it to the end.

Sound wacky? I thought so too, so dug up the full data sheet - here's the answers:

View attachment 791648

View attachment 791649

My temp was about 22 deg C and RH was about 60-65%.

My guess is the first balls-up was about 20-30 seconds, and the one that only just worked was about 5-10 seconds.

Lesson - if you're going to use Loctite 480 (and possibly 380), work fast folks! Because this is a bit of an understatement:

View attachment 791654

I have an extra ball and handle if you can’t get yours resolved. PM me.

 

[Marbles]

I have an extra ball and handle if you can’t get yours resolved. PM me.

Has you wife approved that offer?

 

[Formidilosus]

Here's an update on using Loctite 480.

TLDR: I didn't move fast enough, and now have a ball sticking off the end of the exposed threaded area. If I can't fix, then I've possibly just destroyed a UM bolt handle!

Long version: Loctite 480 (and 380) state 90 seconds:

View attachment 791644

90 seconds is not the full story, and easy to use ... not so much. Here's what happened: I degreased UM bolt thread and inside knob (a fair amount of grease/oil, so don't skip this step!).

Applied 480, and went to assemble. Ball caught strongly on first quarter turn that I thought it must have been cross-threaded. I quickly removed and reattempted. Same outcome. Removed and reattempted - when I felt it catch, I knew it wasn't cross-threaded, so started screwing on with as much hand strength possible. Ball fully caught in perhaps only one turn, and was locked in place. Wrench and pliers couldn't remove.

I had a second handle and knob. This time, degreased and tested dry assembly a few times, making sure no cross-threading and perfect line-up. Applied Loctite 480. Went to screw on an the slight catch again - then screwed it on as fast as I could. Halfway along the short threaded section, this became hard. Had to use all my hand strength to get it to the end.

Sound wacky? I thought so too, so dug up the full data sheet - here's the answers:

View attachment 791648

View attachment 791649

My temp was about 22 deg C and RH was about 60-65%.

My guess is the first balls-up was about 20-30 seconds, and the one that only just worked was about 5-10 seconds.

Lesson - if you're going to use Loctite 480 (and possibly 380), work fast folks! Because this is a bit of an understatement:

View attachment 791654

A propane torch will release it.


And yes, you need to be quick.

 

[Dobermann]

Acetone should dissolve a CA based glue like 480. Let it soak for 24 hours and see.

Edit: Sounds like applying it to the last 3 or so threads with the ball mostly on already might be the best way to use it. I would have done it the same way as you on the first try though

Thanks! Acetone just worked.

This time, I ended up applying the 480 to all threads, as I'd read on a spec sheet for another Loctite product that it needed to have full coverage in order for a proper set-up/full strength. Not sure if that's the case for 480 though.

However, this time I made sure the application was very fine. Timed myself, and was surprised to see that fully threading the ball on at speed took a whole 5 seconds - which confirms that you do need to do this operation quickly to be within the 480's set time.

However, I found the main culprit for the first rodeo - the UM ball head actually had a lot of swarf inside, which must have jammed in the threads (photo below).

This is odd, as I'd noticed a lot of swarf in the other one, and cleaned it out. This one had looked smooth, but perhaps the swarf was just actually compressed to look somewhat uniform. Then, when I was screwing on the ball the first time, it must had dropped down and jammed the threads.

So, two takeaways: 1. It's possible that the first jam-up was due to the swarf, not the Loctite 480. However, given I then couldn't undo the ball, and how much effort was needed on the second, the Loctite does certainly set up fast. So: clean out your swarf, and double-check with a pick, rather than just do a visual inspection. And apply the Loctite thinly and move quickly.

2. @Salmon River Solutions and @Unknown Munitions - if there's any way to reduce the swarf in the bottom of the ball head, you might end up with fewer customer questions, complaints, etc. Not that I complained, but just knowing that someone will - there was a lot of swarf in both of my ball heads.

All up - awesome product. Have put one on my carbon-stocked Tikka 223, and there's no contact with the stock (stock is similar to a Stocky's VG Hunter). Ball on short bolt handle is perfect length for me - right where you need it, but still out of the way, as @Formidilosus intended.

 

[D L]

Dobermann, glad this all worked out and thanks for the info. I have two new Tikkas on the way and am planning on replacing the bolt handles with the UM bolt handles. This will help speed up the install process and help me avoid any headaches.

 

[Dobermann]

Dobermann, glad this all worked out and thanks for the info. I have two new Tikkas on the way and am planning on replacing the bolt handles with the UM bolt handles. This will help speed up the install process and help me avoid any headaches.

You're welcome.

And given some people's earlier experiences of having other adhesives and threadlockers not work, I'd follow @Formidilosus's recommendation of the Loctite 308 or 480 - the spec sheets say that they're both rubberised, and designed for applications that require high sheer strength and shock resistance.

 

[D L]

That is what I did. Ordered and received some Loctite 380. Now just waiting for my rifles (WA state mandatory 10 day wait). Will be ordering the knobs and bolt handles shortly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fwafwow]

You're welcome.

And given some people's earlier experiences of having other adhesives and threadlockers not work, I'd follow @Formidilosus's recommendation of the Loctite 308 or 480 - the spec sheets say that they're both rubberised, and designed for applications that require high sheer strength and shock resistance.

Yes, thank you for this. I had Loctite 380 in my Amazon cart and didn't follow-thru. But the last few times I tried my ball, it didn't seem as easy to unscrew. So I am just going to sit tight and see how things go.

And I never knew what swarf was before this thread.

 

[Dobermann]

Yes, thank you for this. I had Loctite 380 in my Amazon cart and didn't follow-thru. But the last few times I tried my ball, it didn't seem as easy to unscrew. So I am just going to sit tight and see how things go.

And I never knew what swarf was before this thread.

Check out the TDS for Loctite 380 - sounds like it has some specific features that make it a better option than the usual blue or red we use for other applications, or others kinds of epoxy.

And if you haven't had the joy of swarf Matrixing past your eye pro - or having to remove swarf from a fellow metalworker ... you're not missing out on anything fun.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

So I was skeptical how much better this would or wouldn't be but after the glowing reports here and the UM sale last week I decided to give it a try... Yup they're quite nice and ruins the feeling of the stock handle which previously felt fine. Kinda like first time you look through alpha glass or such versus your mid tier binos. The old ones were sufficient but its hard going back after the alpha experience.

 

[D L]

Cleaned internal and external threads with a pick some rubbing alcohol. A little Loctite 380 inside the ball, tightened up with a leather glove wrapped around the ball and a pair of water pump pliers. All went together well. I don’t think these are coming apart anytime soon. This is a nice upgrade over stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Anyone got any reason to think original gorilla glue (expanding polyurethane) wouldn't work for affixing the knob?

Paint pen kinda held and I'm sure if I tightened it down hard it might hold but I don't want it coming loose in the field. I have some gorilla glue here and was thinking about that before ordering some loctite 380 or running to cabelas and getting some victory black fusion insert glue.

 

[WI-Carcosa]

Thank you all for the ideas. I tried paint pen originally on 2 bolt handles and they merely slow down the knob but did not lock in place. I had some roksett on hand and that took care of it.

 

[Dobermann]

Anyone got any reason to think original gorilla glue (expanding polyurethane) wouldn't work for affixing the knob?

Paint pen kinda held and I'm sure if I tightened it down hard it might hold but I don't want it coming loose in the field. I have some gorilla glue here and was thinking about that before ordering some loctite 380 or running to cabelas and getting some victory black fusion insert glue.

The 380 and 480 specs said something about having some kind of plasticity (not the right word, but it's on the spec sheet, or possibly in an earlier post of mine in this thread). And said something about being the right choice for parts that were under movement ... sorry to forget the details, but it's worth looking up: as soon as I read the (actual) technical description, Form's recommendation on this made sense.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

The 380 and 480 specs said something about having some kind of plasticity (not the right word, but it's on the spec sheet, or possibly in an earlier post of mine in this thread). And said something about being the right choice for parts that were under movement ... sorry to forget the details, but it's worth looking up: as soon as I read the (actual) technical description, Form's recommendation on this made sense.

For whatever its worth I tired the gorilla glue on one and tightened it down with pliers and a rubber sheet. I haven't tried my hardest to break it loose but seems on there well. If it comes loose eventually I'll get some 380.

 

[Lawnboi]

Fwiw midway has small tubes of 380

 

[NSI]

Fwiw midway has small tubes of 380

I can’t say enough good things about simply keeping some sort of high quality rubberized CA glue around. At the bench, in vehicles, in tool bags, in binoculars harnesses…..

-J