Ultralight Ultralight Rifles

[WyoJeff]

Yes, Rick made the stock for that rifle. That was when he was living in here in Alaska. It was pretty convenient as I could drive to his place and get everything done in person. I think he may have made a rifle for StupidLightweight as well.

Walking through the woods the other day with one of these, I was actually thinking that these are the new (and improved) Ramblin Rifles. I'd take one of these any day over one of those as an ultralight hunting rifle. 1/4 the cost, or less, lighter weight, switch barrel capable, no gunsmith required.

Talking with Rick, I think he pretty much did everything with the original Rambling Rifles. He used to be at gun shows here in Alaska which is where I first met him. I was super intrigued with the stuff he was building.

Yes, Rick made the stock for that rifle. That was when he was living in here in Alaska. It was pretty convenient as I could drive to his place and get everything done in person. I think he may have made a rifle for StupidLightweight as well.

Walking through the woods the other day with one of these, I was actually thinking that these are the new (and improved) Ramblin Rifles. I'd take one of these any day over one of those as an ultralight hunting rifle. 1/4 the cost, or less, lighter weight, switch barrel capable, no gunsmith required.

Talking with Rick, I think he pretty much did everything with the original Rambling Rifles. He used to be at gun shows here in Alaska which is where I first met him. I was super intrigued with the stuff he was building.

new Howa SuperLite at 4lbs + gonna be hard to beat for the money...gonna bark a little in 308 with the 16in barrel though!

 

[Taudisio]

Thanks!

Good question. We're required to bring in the hide and skull of a grizzly in for sealing, but there are no requirements beyond that. Yes, after years of bear hunting, you get hided out...

Did your buddy get the bear? 888 yards? That's crazy.

First shot was on the money, follow up broke a femur, it was at that twilight time and I couldn’t spot the hit. We sure heard the “bloop” of a bullet impacting soft tissue. He ran downhill, into bushes, when he came out, second shot. Heard a “crack” and we both assumed he missed. The bear wheeled around and went back into the bush and never came out for the 10ish minutes we watched for him. He was dead under the bush when we got there. Only photo I took without my buddy in it, probably a 200-250 pounder. The next farthest shot on an animal I’ve seen was 510 yards. He passed that by a long ways.

 

[Thegman]

....Ultralight-Ultralight Summer Special Olympics...

Taudisio and I came up with a plan for baseline rules for the Summer Special Olympics.

Weigh your rifle with optics (and bipod if you run it that way). Don't worry about mag, ammo, sling etc.

Rifle weight as above has to be under 5# to qualify for the Special Olympics.

Post actual 5-shot group size and adjusted "handicap" group size.

In order to not to have arbitrary weight classes, blah, blah, blah, we decided on a simple "handicap factor" and "handicap group size" especially for people shooting the lightest and heaviest Ul-Uls

Handicap group size is your actual group size multiplied by the Special Olympics "handicap factor" which is your rifle’s weight to the nearest ounce divided by 4# (4# is the somewhat arbitrary "standard Ultralight-Ultalight rifle weight" as that seems to be around where they typically land with optics.)

So, for example, if your rifle weight is 4# 9oz, your "handicap factor" is 73(oz)/64(oz) = 1.14

Handicap group size would be actual group size x 1.14.

I think actual group size is still the most interesting, but I'm hoping I can maybe win a Participation Trophy.

All that said, the basics:
5# upper limit
4# "Standard Weight"
8" Paper plate with 1" circle drawn in the center.
200 yards
Hunting field position of choice (preferably shot how the shooter actually shoots at game at distance - e.g. mine will be prone off my pack)
Post picture of your plate(s) on your rifle(s) with notes written about:
•Rifle Weight
•Cartridge and bullet
•Actual 5-Shot Group Size (center to center)
•Handicap Group Size

Once we get through the 200 yard baseline, feel free to move out further in whatever 50 yard increments you wish to and post those too.

I know this is kind of goofy, but I'm really interested to see how people do, especially myself. I haven't done any systematic field testing like this and it will be pretty helpful for me.

I plan on shooting my big-boy rifles at the same time and seeing what difference there is. I know I make consistent hits with them out to 300 yards or so (which is as far as I typically shoot at game) and have never bothered doing this with them either.

 

[JBradley500]

I feel like my magnification, or lack thereof, would have me hitting minute of pie plate at 200. Seems like a magnified microprism would be a good option for your rules, but I'm waiting for a GLX 1x.

 

[pavementends]

Any new information on a source for gas portless barrels?

 

[Thegman]

I feel like my magnification, or lack thereof, would have me hitting minute of pie plate at 200. Seems like a magnified microprism would be a good option for your rules, but I'm waiting for a GLX 1x.

Damn it! There goes my DEI score; I forgot about you guys that spend all your time in the bushes.

How about a 100 yard forest-dweller sub-category for you guys hunting where a 1× makes sense?

 

[Thegman]

Any new information on a source for gas portless barrels?

Nothing that I've heard. I'd check with Wilson and Shaw.

 

[JBradley500]

Damn it! There goes my DEI score; I forgot about you guys that spend all your time in the bushes.

How about a 100 yard forest-dweller sub-category for you guys hunting where a 1× makes sense?

That's what I'm talking about. The "East of the Mississippi" class.

 

[Taudisio]

That's what I'm talking about. The "East of the Mississippi" class.

I have a rifle for both classes! This is going to be a fun time. Hopefully I can shoot this weekend with a threaded barrel. I may have 3 plates, one “east of the Mississippi”, one with a thread protector…….and one suppressed I plan on pushing it out to as far as I can consistently hit the plate. I’m guessing 450-500 is my max yardage for an 8.5” plate. We estimated paper plate size, a Dixie ultra is 8.5” and what I’ll be using.

 

[David Walter]

Anyone tried a 25-45 in one of these?

Any advantage to the proven 300 HAMR?

 

[Thegman]

Anyone tried a 25-45 in one of these?

Any advantage to the proven 300 HAMR?

Not that I know of, but I think it could be another really good option if you could find a suitable barrel. I've wondered if the 6x45 and 25-45 might be around a "sweet-spot" for a single, 223 based "jack-of-all-trades-do-it-all" Ultralight-Ultralight.

Maybe a little more range than a HAM’R and maybe a little more penetration/terminal performance than 233. I have zero experience with either though so just thinking out loud and speculating.

The 223/5.56 and HAM’R have worked great for me. Within 250-300 yards I suspect the HAM’R is hard for any of them to beat terminally.

 

[Taudisio]

Anyone tried a 25-45 in one of these?

Any advantage to the proven 300 HAMR?

I started doing a little looking, sharps is claiming 2790fps with an 87gr hot-cor in a 16” barrel. 3000 with a 24”.
I’m running the bullets longer and spicier to get my 6x45 2750 with 87gr vmax. I obviously have a better bc. Quick and dirty charts provided.
In order, 25-45 87gr, 6x45 87gr, 5.56 77gr and I guessed 2750fps but don’t know real world velocity for the 5.56 hand loads and 16” barrel.

 

[Thegman]

I started doing a little looking, sharps is claiming 2790fps with an 87gr hot-cor in a 16” barrel. 3000 with a 24”.
I’m running the bullets longer and spicier to get my 6x45 2750 with 87gr vmax. I obviously have a better bc. Quick and dirty charts provided.
In order, 25-45 87gr, 6x45 87gr, 5.56 77gr and I guessed 2750fps but don’t know real world velocity for the 5.56 hand loads and 16” barrel.

2750 has been doable with the 77TMK and MR2000, maybe some others as well. That's a good high-end estimate.

Looks like 223/6x45 are probably still the best at the most, with 6x45 87 VMax being possibly the "bestest at the mostest". I'll have to see how the HAM’R does further out on the paper plates this summer, but probably can't quite keep up with the other two.

 

[johnnyboots]

What time frame are we looking at to complete these tasks? Asking because as of today I may have 2 (or even 3) submissions.

 

[Taudisio]

2750 has been doable with the 77TMK and MR2000, maybe some others as well. That's a good high-end estimate.

Looks like 223/6x45 are probably still the best at the most, with 6x45 87 VMax being possibly the "bestest at the mostest". I'll have to see how the HAM’R does further out on the paper plates this summer, but probably can't quite keep up with the other two.

The only reasonable difference in the v-max’s favor are lower expansion velocity (thus longer range usage) and its about 30¢ a bullet. The 77 is no slouch and a proven rockstar, but unobtanium at this time.

 

[Thegman]

What time frame are we looking at to complete these tasks? Asking because as of today I may have 2 (or even 3) submissions.

Well, I would say all summer, as you shoot them. I guess we'll keep a running tally of 200 yard scores. I'm way behind you guys anyway. I only have 30 77TMKs left which are reserved for hunting. I'm going to have to come up with something else for this. I do have a bunch of Nosler Custom Competition I'd be glad to have a use for. I'd rather use a hunting load, but my favorite hunting bullets (77TMK and 125BT) are unobtainable at the moment.

 

[Thegman]

The only reasonable difference in the v-max’s favor are lower expansion velocity (thus longer range usage) and its about 30¢ a bullet. The 77 is no slouch and a proven rockstar, but unobtanium at this time.

Sounds like the 87 Vmax might have an edge in penetration as well, according to your tests? I'm thinking it might wreck like the TMK and penetrate better as well (?). I'm all about big exits if I can get them, all else being equal.

 

[Taudisio]

Sounds like the 87 Vmax might have an edge in penetration as well, according to your tests? I'm thinking it might wreck like the TMK and penetrate better as well (?). I'm all about big exits if I can get them, all else being equal.

Eh, I always take water jugs with a grain of salt. Water is really hard on bullets. I have some black hills and water jugs sitting around for a retest, but I would guess they are more similar than different to the v-max performance. I’ll post pictures once I do it again. I think I feel comfortable enough to shoot my 5.56 UL-UL with the red dot out at 200 yards in the plate test as well and skip the “east of the Mississippi” category.

 

[Thegman]

No flies on the 223/77TMK (and others) for sure, but I'm super interested in seeing your posts with on-game results from the 6x45. A few animals will probably tell a lot about what to expect from it.

 

[180ls1]

What weights are people arriving at with the ar10? Has anyone done one inspired by this thread?