Tulsa shooting

[Newtosavage]

Tough day here in Tulsa. The lady that was killed was the mother of one of my son's friends. They played JV and Varsity baseball together. We did not know them well, but sat by them many times at baseball games. She was very nice and by all accounts, all 4 people that were shot were good people. I am typically pretty thick skinned when it comes to these things, but obviously this one has hit me pretty hard.

I don't know what the answers are just like many here, but we need to get a handle on the mental health situation in this country and somehow start moving toward stronger nuclear families again. We need to drop the damn politics and figure something out.

However I'm a firm believer that in our current climate, once the news cycle dies down, nothing will happen of substance. It will all be window dressing

Very sorry for your loss.

by all accounts, those were some fine people. My son is starting medical school soon and the idea that someone would go in and shoot a doctor doesn't set well with me. Just like watching what my HS teacher wife does every day for her students, my son has already sacrificed a ton just to put himself in a position to help people for a living. It is devastating to see the best among us be targeted by these shooters. Teachers and doctors did not sign up to be targets.

 

[Newtosavage]

Lowes like fertilizer purchase killed 168 people and injured 650+

You can’t regulate evil, it finds away. But then again that doesn’t fit your narrative.

Yup, ignore the problem. Distract from it and offer no real solutions. That has really gotten us a long way since Columbine hasn't it.

My narrative is pro-life. What's yours?

 

[CoStick]

The impact will come from liability of ownership, selling , and manufacturing, especially based on marketing techniques. I think we will see this play out after the latest TX shooting. Remington was hit after Sandyhook, will be interesting to watch. No doubt the war on drugs and gun control have gone poorly for the US, both groups just making it worse.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Can you explain the difference in mass shootings between our country and others with more restrictive gun laws?

And what does someone loving someone else have to do with gun laws? Weird.

You mean like the —-

Norway 69 killed
Serbia 14 killed
France 14 killed
Czech 9 killed
England 13 killed

 

[Ratbeetle]

Which of these mass shooters is from the third world? How do we celebrate mental illness and how is that causal? What is the connection between all of the other things you don’t personally like and any kind of gun violence?

Look folks. Every bit of energy we use up on the imaginary boogeymen is energy that could be spent looking for solutions. Lots of us like to talk tough in the manner of “take them from our cold dead hands” but that will not be the reality.

If something doesn’t change they will take them away. We will all be really mad but it will happen anyway. No person will stand a chance of stopping it.

Are you serious right now? Things I don't personally like...smfh. The fact that what I mentioned in my other post are things we don't all collectively have a problem with speaks volumes about the cavernous divide in this country. If you can't see the connection, I can't help you...especially not through a few sentences on an internet message board. I honestly just don't care enough to spell it out for you.

How some can't grasp that letting a portion of the population that celebrates mental illness drive the conversation regarding legislation that restricts god-given, constitutionally protected rights baffles me.

But you do you, go right ahead and give the leftists what they want by continuing to let them encroach. I'll be contacting my reps and telling them that I don't support ANY continued infringements on our constitutional rights while you brainstorm how to appease people that can never be satisfied.

Anyway, I should know better than to get roped into these threads. I'm not having my day time-sucked by this. You can have the last word, I've got stuff to do.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Ban all the guns you want but until society gets their shit together (enforcing existing laws, moral stability, etc) shit isn't changing. There were guns every where 20-years ago and this crap wasn't happening. For you that want gun laws, bans, etc Happy Pride Month.

Yeah… must be the gays. Lucky for the other first world countries they don’t have gays and they are so much more morally stable.

You are refusing to discuss things that might be causal. What you call moral decline isn’t something new. Spartan warriors had regular gay stuff going on. It’s not something new. I acknowledge that our rate of gun violence is a relatively new thing. What has changed that could actually be related?

 

[CJ19]

Yup, ignore the problem. Distract from it and offer no real solutions. That has really gotten us a long way since Columbine hasn't it.

My narrative is pro-life. What's yours?

Propose a solution there tough guy.

 

[Wyobohunter]

You mean like the —-

Norway 69 killed
Serbia 14 killed
France 14 killed
Czech 9 killed
England 13 killed

Care to pull up our rates of gun murder during the exact same years? If we’re going to use those examples they should be juxtaposed.

 

[Newtosavage]

Propose a solution there tough guy.

"tough guy?" What's the point of that?

I've said here before the solution will have to be multi-faceted and making it harder for people to get their hands on weapons designed for warfare is just part of the solution.

Daydreaming about "nuclear families" and "morality" sounds good, but that doesn't explain why countries who have fewer nuclear families and fewer "morals" also have far fewer mass shootings.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Yup, ignore the problem. Distract from it and offer no real solutions. That has really gotten us a long way since Columbine hasn't it.

My narrative is pro-life. What's yours?

Liberty and duty to my family

I’m not here to normalize mental health issues, I’m not hear to make excuses for mental health. I’m not here to destroy the traditional family unit, I’m not here to radicalize people against local law enforcement

Only gun law I would support is un-seal youth records and add them to current system check.

The issue is people like your self that want to normalize all the above issues instead of addressing them. You want to destroy constitutional rights in the name of normalization of mental issues. That’s not me.

Strong loving Families, great Fathers, and Husband and wives that respect each other is the solution.

Fix the family unit and fix’s the BS

 

[Eltigreblanco]

Points 1 and 2 make me smile and are the reason we continue to enjoy more freedoms than any other people in the world.

We won't fix anything in this country until we stop the celebration of mental illness, stop the wholesale import of third worlders that don't share American values and stop the ongoing destruction of the traditional family unit and American way of life.

As long as we have half a population that believes children should be allowed to take hormones to permanently alter their gender, that public employees should be able to discuss sexual topics with 5 year olds, that men can get their periods, that we shouldn't have a secured border, that it's empowering to have babies with 3 different men and no husband, that forced medical injections are ok, that the US is a systemically racist country and white people are a problem, etc. etc. etc., this country is doomed.

Until the pendulum swings back in the direction of sanity, there is nothing that is going to fix the problems we have in this country. I'm certainly not giving up any guns just because a mentally ill portion of the population thinks I need to.

I've done no research on this, just thought your statement was pretty bold

 

[Macintosh]

Wyobo, that's exactly my point--England already does have a rate of knife violence that is HIGHER than the rate of mass shootings in the US. Based on the pew link and the 2020 numbers from the knife-violence link I posted above, the rate of knife violence in london alone, spread over the entire population of the UK (which would under-estimate the prevalence of this crime), was 2.42 incidences per 10,000 people (15.9thousand incidences across a population of 66 million), while the rate of mass shootings in the US is .0012 per 10,000 people (40 mass shootings in 2020 across a population of 329 million). Even if we combine gun murders and suicides from the pew link it's still less than the rate of knife crime (13.2 per 100,000=1.32 per 10,000). So where is the evidence that banning guns in the UK has resulted in lowering the rate of violent crimes? I know this isnt necessarily a perfect apples-to-apples comparison, but this is the sort of logic I'm talking about--the evidence I see does not support banning guns being anything of a solution, nor does it support guns being anything other than correlated by virtue of being the currently most-effective tool. The evidence I see is that using guns as the common denominator is causing us to take our eye off the ball. I understand what you are saying, my point is simply that if we continue to frame the issue around guns, then the solutions will always be focused on guns, and the evidence I see does not support that being effective--so I think framing the issue around guns is actively harming our ability to address the problems.

 

[Newtosavage]

Are you serious right now? Things I don't personally like...smfh. The fact that what I mentioned in my other post are things we don't all collectively have a problem with speaks volumes about the cavernous divide in this country. If you can't see the connection, I can't help you...especially not through a few sentences on an internet message board. I honestly just don't care enough to spell it out for you.

How some can't grasp that letting a portion of the population that celebrates mental illness drive the conversation regarding legislation that restricts god-given, constitutionally protected rights baffles me.

But you do you, go right ahead and give the leftists what they want by continuing to let them encroach. I'll be contacting my reps and telling them that I don't support ANY continued infringements on our constitutional rights while you brainstorm how to appease people that can never be satisfied.

Anyway, I should know better than to get roped into these threads. I'm not having my day time-sucked by this. You can have the last word, I've got stuff to do.

who exactly is celebrating mental illness? Are you reacting to pride month by saying that?

 

[Btaylor]

"tough guy?" What's the point of that?

I've said here before the solution will have to be multi-faceted and making it harder for people to get their hands on weapons designed for warfare is just part of the solution.

Daydreaming about "nuclear families" and "morality" sounds good, but that doesn't explain why countries who have fewer nuclear families and fewer "morals" also have far fewer mass shootings.

Define a weapon for warfare.

 

[5MilesBack]

My narrative is pro-life. What's yours?

Well, you must stand alone with your compadres. If only the rest of the left were pro-life. It's hard to take them seriously when they not only want, but now "demand" the killing of unborn babies, but then scream "pro-life" in other causes. They want the release of actual convicted GUILTY criminals back to the street, but then demand the access to and the killing of the innocent unborn. Is that logical? Of course not. Does it help their cause and agenda? Not with people capable of using logic and reason.

Our narrative is the same as it was more than two centuries ago.......freedom, independence, and defending and protecting the Constitution and our nation from all enemies at all costs. Many before us have made the ultimate sacrifice for this, protecting our nation from those that HATE that we have all that in the greatest nation on earth. Those that are attempting to take any or all of that away are the enemy........even from within our own nation. If you're an American, you're either a patriot or a traitor........there's no middle ground there. We're seeing more traitors these days than we've ever seen as a nation.

 

[Newtosavage]

Liberty and duty to my family

I’m not here to normalize mental health issues, I’m not hear to make excuses for mental health. I’m not here to destroy the traditional family unit, I’m not here to radicalize people against local law enforcement

Only gun law I would support is un-seal youth records and add them to current system check.

The issue is people like your self that want to normalize all the above issues instead of addressing them. You want to destroy constitutional rights in the name of normalization of mental issues. That’s not me.

Strong loving Families, great Fathers, and Husband and wives that respect each other is the solution.

Fix the family unit and fix’s the BS

Again, please explain how so many countries that have all the things you seem to abhor, also have a fraction of mass shootings that we have.

You guys who want to connect mass shootings to a loss of morality just aren't being factually honest.

 

[Newtosavage]

Define a weapon for warfare.

Please.

 

[Btaylor]

Please.

You made the statement multiple times now that there needs to be restrictions on weapons for warfare. It's your damn argument. Define a weapon of warfare.

 

[BjornF16]

After the number of people affected by these mass shootings hits a critical mass, gun registration will be required and you will have to pay an annual registration fee for every gun you own just like you do your car, boat, etc. Then people will start voluntarily turning in the guns they don't use because they are tired of paying an annual registration fee on them.

Gun registration and fees:

1. Know who has what for confiscation purposes

2. Tax them until they can’t afford to exercise their natural rights

Only hurdle is:

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)​

In a first amendment case involving freedom of the press and religion, the Supreme Court ruled "The power to impose a license fee on a constitutional right amounts to prior restraint and the power to restrict or deny the right ... a tax laid specifically on the exercise of these freedoms would be unconstitutional."

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)

Murdock v. Pennsylvania: It is unconstitutional for a state to tax people selling religious merchandise.

supreme.justia.com

 

[Wyobohunter]

Are you serious right now? Things I don't personally like...smfh. The fact that what I mentioned in my other post are things we don't all collectively have a problem with speaks volumes about the cavernous divide in this country. If you can't see the connection, I can't help you...especially not through a few sentences on an internet message board. I honestly just don't care enough to spell it out for you.

How some can't grasp that letting a portion of the population that celebrates mental illness drive the conversation regarding legislation that restricts god-given, constitutionally protected rights baffles me.

But you do you, go right ahead and give the leftists what they want by continuing to let them encroach. I'll be contacting my reps and telling them that I don't support ANY continued infringements on our constitutional rights while you brainstorm how to appease people that can never be satisfied.

Anyway, I should know better than to get roped into these threads. I'm not having my day time-sucked by this. You can have the last word, I've got stuff to do.

That was a lot of sentences explaining why you don’t want to type a lot of sentences to answer some pretty (according to you) simple questions.

How are any of the things you called out related to gun violence? You could:
1- Admit they aren’t connected by refusing to reply.
2- Explain how they are connected and maybe share which mass shooter was either gay, a single mom or an immigrant from a third world nation.
3- Just keep it simple and say they aren’t connected but those things make you upset.