Trick Pin & Welcome Darin Cooper - Check out his best archery tech article!

[Piscatory_4]

If it worked on targets I would think it would work on animals... I would think the arrow contacted something mid flight or the person behind the bow may have jerked the bow during the shot


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Very likely the shooter, that bull may have only been 20yds,

 

[Rent Outdoor Gear]

I found the original article, and am really interested in trying this with my 5-pin setup. Going to try it tomorrow evening after work (can't tonight- hockey game, let's go Blues, etc.).

That being said- what was the initial parameter you did the calculations for? Did you pick a maximum height of 15" and go with that to find the yardage pin to use? Or did you try to maximize the flat trajectory range using the program? Or was it just completely arbitrary?

Primarily looked at the largest area of +\- (flat) in the trajectory curve and used that curve to determine +15” was the peak above the line of sight aiming with ~50 yard pin. +9” was the minimum height above the line of sight and occurred around 13 and 42.5 yards for my setup giving me about 30 yards of range where I can just kill the elk without any need to over-think the distance.

Set up properly, and aimed correctly (50-ish pin) at the hairline below the vitals it’s physically impossible to shoot over an elk unless he was a miniature elk and pulled some ninja matrix shit or there was another issue with the shot.


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[R-K]

Primarily looked at the largest area of +\- (flat) in the trajectory curve and used that curve to determine +15” was the peak above the line of sight aiming with ~50 yard pin. +9” was the minimum height above the line of sight and occurred around 13 and 42.5 yards for my setup giving me about 30 yards of range where I can just kill the elk without any need to over-think the distance.

Set up properly, and aimed correctly (50-ish pin) at the hairline below the vitals it’s physically impossible to shoot over an elk unless he was a miniature elk and pulled some ninja matrix shit or there was another issue with the shot.


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Thanks! I plotted the trajectory curve and line of sight to find the effective ranges for my setup. Need to find a chrono to get the true speed, but it looks like I'm 12-41 yards or so on mine. Definitely takes some getting used to shooting it on paper. Need to get out to a 3D range soon.

 

[Rent Outdoor Gear]

Thanks! I plotted the trajectory curve and line of sight to find the effective ranges for my setup. Need to find a chrono to get the true speed, but it looks like I'm 12-41 yards or so on mine. Definitely takes some getting used to shooting it on paper. Need to get out to a 3D range soon.

Great! I wouldn't worry about the chronograph, just build the test target and see how far you can go before you drop out the bottom. Empirical data is always better than the best estimate.

DC

 

[FirefighterVT]

For most "average" hunting setups start with your 50 yard pin... at 25 yards with this system, the worst you will be off is a few inches. You don't really have to worry about losing an arrow.

Interesting read and concept!!

 

[LostArra]

I wanted to bring this back up after my elk hunt last week and thank Darin for the article.

At 66 years old I'm still a relative rookie to compounds. I've shot recurves/longbows for 50+ years and bought my first compound a few years ago at 64 when a shoulder flared up before elk season. This summer I played around with Darin's Trick pin and last week it saved me and put elk meat in the freezer.

I was all set up by some big rocks as a group of cows (I had cow tag) and a bull moved up the hill towards me. I had ranged the narrow saddle I was expecting them to move through but being elk they skirted around the far side. The screaming bull pushed them towards me but at 60 yards which is out of my range. The bull then pushed them closer but around the rocks and all ten cows were directly in front of me (zero cover) at an unknown distance but I was confident it was less than 40. I had my single pin sight set on my Trick Pin distance and after a 5 minute staredown by each cow the moment finally came when at least one was not staring a hole in me and I could draw. Most of them looked up at the movement but it was too late and I set that Trick Pin just off the bottom of the chest and shot a perfect 10 ring. 30 yard recovery and the work began. The Trick Pin worked to perfection and took the sight anxiety out of this tense encounter. I shoot a relatively light bow not known for speed and somewhat heavy (500gr+) arrows (trad influence) and the Trick Pin method did the job. I'm sold on it for elk hunting where things happen fast and using a range finder isn't always possible. Thanks Darin.

 

[robby denning]

I wanted to bring this back up after my elk hunt last week and thank Darin for the article.

At 66 years old I'm still a relative rookie to compounds. I've shot recurves/longbows for 50+ years and bought my first compound a few years ago at 64 when a shoulder flared up before elk season. This summer I played around with Darin's Trick pin and last week it saved me and put elk meat in the freezer.

I was all set up by some big rocks as a group of cows (I had cow tag) and a bull moved up the hill towards me. I had ranged the narrow saddle I was expecting them to move through but being elk they skirted around the far side. The screaming bull pushed them towards me but at 60 yards which is out of my range. The bull then pushed them closer but around the rocks and all ten cows were directly in front of me (zero cover) at an unknown distance but I was confident it was less than 40. I had my single pin sight set on my Trick Pin distance and after a 5 minute staredown by each cow the moment finally came when at least one was not staring a hole in me and I could draw. Most of them looked up at the movement but it was too late and I set that Trick Pin just off the bottom of the chest and shot a perfect 10 ring. 30 yard recovery and the work began. The Trick Pin worked to perfection and took the sight anxiety out of this tense encounter. I shoot a relatively light bow not known for speed and somewhat heavy (500gr+) arrows (trad influence) and the Trick Pin method did the job. I'm sold on it for elk hunting where things happen fast and using a range finder isn't always possible. Thanks Darin.

great story!!!!!
was so glad to see you pulled this back up. We heard from a lot of people on this article and is why it's in the top 5 of all articles we've ever published. Thanks again and glad to hear you took that bull down! @Darin Cooper , tagging you so you see this next time you're on.

 

[Billy Goat]

TTT

 

[Piscatory_4]

I wanted to bring this back up after my elk hunt last week and thank Darin for the article.

At 66 years old I'm still a relative rookie to compounds. I've shot recurves/longbows for 50+ years and bought my first compound a few years ago at 64 when a shoulder flared up before elk season. This summer I played around with Darin's Trick pin and last week it saved me and put elk meat in the freezer.

I was all set up by some big rocks as a group of cows (I had cow tag) and a bull moved up the hill towards me. I had ranged the narrow saddle I was expecting them to move through but being elk they skirted around the far side. The screaming bull pushed them towards me but at 60 yards which is out of my range. The bull then pushed them closer but around the rocks and all ten cows were directly in front of me (zero cover) at an unknown distance but I was confident it was less than 40. I had my single pin sight set on my Trick Pin distance and after a 5 minute staredown by each cow the moment finally came when at least one was not staring a hole in me and I could draw. Most of them looked up at the movement but it was too late and I set that Trick Pin just off the bottom of the chest and shot a perfect 10 ring. 30 yard recovery and the work began. The Trick Pin worked to perfection and took the sight anxiety out of this tense encounter. I shoot a relatively light bow not known for speed and somewhat heavy (500gr+) arrows (trad influence) and the Trick Pin method did the job. I'm sold on it for elk hunting where things happen fast and using a range finder isn't always possible. Thanks Darin.

I hadn't thought of using a single pin slider set to trick pin distance, always considered multipin use. Need to reconsider a 3 pin slider now...

 

[Clarktar]

Wish Darin would post more. He has a lot to offer, and is a nice guy to boot!

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[Rent Outdoor Gear]

I wanted to bring this back up after my elk hunt last week and thank Darin for the article.

At 66 years old I'm still a relative rookie to compounds. I've shot recurves/longbows for 50+ years and bought my first compound a few years ago at 64 when a shoulder flared up before elk season. This summer I played around with Darin's Trick pin and last week it saved me and put elk meat in the freezer.

I was all set up by some big rocks as a group of cows (I had cow tag) and a bull moved up the hill towards me. I had ranged the narrow saddle I was expecting them to move through but being elk they skirted around the far side. The screaming bull pushed them towards me but at 60 yards which is out of my range. The bull then pushed them closer but around the rocks and all ten cows were directly in front of me (zero cover) at an unknown distance but I was confident it was less than 40. I had my single pin sight set on my Trick Pin distance and after a 5 minute staredown by each cow the moment finally came when at least one was not staring a hole in me and I could draw. Most of them looked up at the movement but it was too late and I set that Trick Pin just off the bottom of the chest and shot a perfect 10 ring. 30 yard recovery and the work began. The Trick Pin worked to perfection and took the sight anxiety out of this tense encounter. I shoot a relatively light bow not known for speed and somewhat heavy (500gr+) arrows (trad influence) and the Trick Pin method did the job. I'm sold on it for elk hunting where things happen fast and using a range finder isn't always possible. Thanks Darin.

First and foremost, CONGRATULATIONS on your elk!!!

I love hearing this method is helping people make clean harvests on game. I’ve personally had 100% success on game with the trick pin. I hope more will spend the time time to try it out and add it to their quiver of knowledge. It has certainly been a game changer on elk hunting’s close encounters for me.

Thanks for the feedback and kind words!

DC


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[SlickStickSlinger]

Honored to be the first in 2020 to post in this 7 year running thread. Looking forward to working this concept once the weather settles a bit on my three pin slider.
If all goes as well as the thread suggests maybe I'll buy a single pin to add in as a trick pin to make a four pin slider sight. Not having to range elk hunting would be huge.

 

[Rent Outdoor Gear]

Ha ha, that's awesome! Hard to believe it's been that long ago. It can be a game changer for elk - especially for guys like me that get a little jazzed up when a big bull is screaming in your face! I hope it works out well for you! After 7 years it might be time to update the article with some new photos and content. I've "tricked" quite a few more critters since I wrote that.

 

[Patriot2]

Good morning Darin! Hey I wanted to clear something up regarding Trick Pin - which I use in my elk hunting set up and find extremely useful. Once I tried it (which was before I even understood it!) I was blown away and wondering why it was not in widespread. But it is clear the vast majority of people cannot wrap their head around it and it is not used by many because it is not being described accurately or completely such that it clicks and makes sense. Thus my "new " explanation of what is at the heart of Trick Pin. Please contact me if you wish to discuss, would like clarification on the sketch below, or find error in my analysis - my (our) goal is to help archers shoot as effectively as possible in hunting situations. Happy Hunting my friend!!

So Darin the reason I can use one pin for 15-45 yds (30 yd window) with Trick Pin but only only a 15-ish yard window (23-37 yds if using my 30 yd pin) if aiming at the conventional point of impact is for one simple reason and I think "shooting from the flattest part of the curve" is inaccurate and misleading and partially responsible for the misunderstanding that is out there (I have seen it repeated elsewhere). Let me explain....

Trick Pin is absolutely NOT the same as simply using one pin, putting it on the point of impact, and determining what range of yardages will keep you in the kill zone (the Trick Pin deniers can't get past this stumbling block). Let me use an extreme example to get the point across. If you stand 1 yard from your target and put a single pin 2' below the bullseye of the target, you are pointing your bow down at a considerable angle. Agreed? Now step out to 40 yards and again put the pin 2' below the bullseye. Is the bow angled down as steeply now? Of course not. So just as you angle a bow upwards when choosing your 60 yd pin over a 20 yd pin, the Trick Pin method has you raising the bow angle upwards as your distance from the target increases. This compensates in part for the increasing arrow drop at longer distances and is SOLELY responsible for the increased effective range. But you MUST aim below the desired point of impact for this phenomenon to occur. Put another way, it works because you are constantly changing the curve in a manner offsetting normal arrow drop as you step away from the target.

I use it for elk hunting and can put my first pin (50 yds) at the bottom of an elk chest and deliver an arrow in the vitals from 15-45 yards (8"-16" above the bottom the chest) shooting 265 fps . Nothing easier. 50 yds and beyond I use pins and aim at the desired impact point as "normal". Here is depiction showing what I tried to describe below assuming a single pin aimed at the intended point of impact, vs Trick Pin. I made a cutout to keep the arrow trajectory, eye location and relative trajectory fixed in the sketch to illustrate the concept.

 

[ATL]

Bringing up an old thread, but I may have a variation to assist with woodland whitetail hunting that has been working well for me.

I first read Darin’s article 7-9 years ago, and found the trick pin system worked very well, especially for Elk where the ideal pin placement was lower edge of chest and tight to the front leg. This placed all impacts solidly in the lower section of an Elk’s chest from approximately 12-42 yards with a 50 yard trick pin. I used it for a quick shot in Wyoming on a steep up hill shot. Not sure the actual range of the Elk, but he was likely 30-40 yards. I remember my brother and hunting partner asked what yardage I shot for, and were baffled when I said “I don’t know.” They thought I was just flinging arrows carelessly. Ha!

I have since moved back east, and do not hunt elk as regularly as I once could. I have really focused on Whitetail hunting in the northeast and Kentucky. All public land woodlands where I do not generally expect shots more than 30-35 yards. The original trick pin system worked, but the proper POA is not as well defined on a deer. I never felt as consistent holding “somewhere” approximately 12” below my intended POI with my 50 yard pin. In practice I noticed shots at the mid ranges (25’ish yards) were impacting above a deers chest centerline. I have had negative issues in the past with high impacts on deer and wished to avoid that. I mainly went to a traditional pin hold method for shots, targeting to hit deer at their actual range.

This past season I may have found a solution for targeting woodland Whitetails using a single pin and single POA. I use a 35 yard pin as a “trick pin,” and hold the POA at the bottom edge of a deer’s chest, tight against the front leg. A very well defined POA, just like for Elk.

I find from the ground at approximately 8-30 yards all POI are within a 2” group, centered 6” above the POA (POI exactly 1/3 up the deer’s chest). From 10-28 yards the arrow shafts stack on top of each other in the same hole in the center of the group.

From a tree stand the steeper angle actually helps stretch this out a bit. I maintain solid hits to 32-33 yards with the same POA.

This past season I had my 3-pin sight setup for 20-35-50 yards. I trained myself to mostly ignore the 20 pin, and I successfully center punched a buck using the 35 pin with the aiming method described above. The buck was likely 24-27 yards from my stand.

I am going “all in” this season. My pins are set for 35-50-65 yards. All shots less than 30’ish yards will be completed with my 35 pin in “trick pin” fashion. If I go elk hunting, I still practice using the 50 yard trick pin too. The 65 yard pin has been a lot of fun during practice, and I have surprised myself how accurate I am at that range (makes the shorter shots easy now). With the consistent pin spacing I maintain the option to range a target and pin gap the shot accurately. I suspect I could refine this system of aiming with the pin set at 37-38 yards, instead of 35 yards. But I like the even pin spacing.

For reference my bow is shooting 281 fps. The included picture shows my 35 yard trick pin POA (yellow dot), and the arrows POI (red star) from approximately 8-30 yards. I hope this helps someone.

 

[LostArra]

Bringing up an old thread, but I may have a variation to assist with woodland whitetail hunting that has been working well for me.

I first read Darin’s article 7-9 years ago, and found the trick pin system worked very well, especially for Elk where the ideal pin placement was lower edge of chest and tight to the front leg. This placed all impacts solidly in the lower section of an Elk’s chest from approximately 12-42 yards with a 50 yard trick pin. I used it for a quick shot in Wyoming on a steep up hill shot. Not sure the actual range of the Elk, but he was likely 30-40 yards. I remember my brother and hunting partner asked what yardage I shot for, and were baffled when I said “I don’t know.” They thought I was just flinging arrows carelessly. Ha!

I have since moved back east, and do not hunt elk as regularly as I once could. I have really focused on Whitetail hunting in the northeast and Kentucky. All public land woodlands where I do not generally expect shots more than 30-35 yards. The original trick pin system worked, but the proper POA is not as well defined on a deer. I never felt as consistent holding “somewhere” approximately 12” below my intended POI with my 50 yard pin. In practice I noticed shots at the mid ranges (25’ish yards) were impacting above a deers chest centerline. I have had negative issues in the past with high impacts on deer and wished to avoid that. I mainly went to a traditional pin hold method for shots, targeting to hit deer at their actual range.

This past season I may have found a solution for targeting woodland Whitetails using a single pin and single POA. I use a 35 yard pin as a “trick pin,” and hold the POA at the bottom edge of a deer’s chest, tight against the front leg. A very well defined POA, just like for Elk.

I find from the ground at approximately 8-30 yards all POI are within a 2” group, centered 6” above the POA (POI exactly 1/3 up the deer’s chest). From 10-28 yards the arrow shafts stack on top of each other in the same hole in the center of the group.

From a tree stand the steeper angle actually helps stretch this out a bit. I maintain solid hits to 32-33 yards with the same POA.

This past season I had my 3-pin sight setup for 20-35-50 yards. I trained myself to mostly ignore the 20 pin, and I successfully center punched a buck using the 35 pin with the aiming method described above. The buck was likely 24-27 yards from my stand.

I am going “all in” this season. My pins are set for 35-50-65 yards. All shots less than 30’ish yards will be completed with my 35 pin in “trick pin” fashion. If I go elk hunting, I still practice using the 50 yard trick pin too. The 65 yard pin has been a lot of fun during practice, and I have surprised myself how accurate I am at that range (makes the shorter shots easy now). With the consistent pin spacing I maintain the option to range a target and pin gap the shot accurately. I suspect I could refine this system of aiming with the pin set at 37-38 yards, instead of 35 yards. But I like the even pin spacing.

For reference my bow is shooting 281 fps. The included picture shows my 35 yard trick pin POA (yellow dot), and the arrows POI (red star) from approximately 8-30 yards. I hope this helps someone.

View attachment 697872

Thanks. That's helpful info.

Since I shoot a single pin I'm setting up my backup compound for whitetails in a similar fashion with my primary bow still for elk.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Resurrecting this necro thread. Anyone still doing this, or have the changes in sights and arrows the past decade plus made it irrelevant?

 

[NXTZ]

I tried the trick pin (using a 2 pin spot Hogg fe) a bit this fall/winter, just practicing in the backyard. I like the concept and I applaud Mr. Cooper for sharing it with us, but I just couldn’t get used to holding low like that. It worked ok on my backyard targets, but when I tried to use this system on an unmarked 3D course the wheels came off for me and I just didn’t feel confident.

I’ve gone back to having my pins at 30/44 (or whatever the 2nd pin end up). Using my top pin dead on I can get to about 35 yards and my arrows hit around 3” low (acceptably in the kill zone). Past that I’ll hold high/use the second pin.
Basically instead of holding low up to xx yards with the trick pin, I can hold dead on with my top pin until 35 yards, then adjust.

Since I shoot a ton at 30/40 yards, I’m pretty confident judging that distance and knowing if I’m within that 35 yard distance, or if I need to aim a bit higher.

 

[ATL]

I use this method exclusively less than 30 yards for deer in the timber (use 35 yard pin), and less than 43 yards for elk (50 yard pin). Keeps arrow placement low in the chest for me, has really cut down on miss judging the distance and getting high hits.