To Non Residents Considering Wyoming Moose Preference Points

[Laramie]

TRW Committee is proposing converting to a full random bonus draw.

I think it's likely something like that is recommended on a yearly basis but I would be surprised if they can get it to pass without some plan to account for those who have invested for decades. What's your opinion? I know you are more connected than I am.

 

[wapitibob]

I forgot to mention the proposal is to square the points as well.
I haven't seen any real discussion yet. There is also a proposal to increase the application fee from $15 to $75 for NR.

 

[Beendare]

Nevada squares their bonus points. After 22 years I have less than .5% chance of drawing an elk tag in the half dozen top units….screwed me

 

[wapitibob]

Nevada squares their bonus points. After 22 years I have less than .5% chance of drawing an elk tag in the half dozen top units….screwed me

100% random bonus draw will kneecap the top point pool guys based on sheer volume. The quantity of "random numbers" for all 3 point Sheep apps in 2023 was nearly equal to the number for the max point pool, when points are squared. Add up the 1-20 point pools, square their points, and the 20+ guys don't have much of a chance.
I like bonus points for all draws, but believe there needs to be a split for max point guys and the remaining going random, both using bonus points. The percentages should probably be adjusted based on species tag quotas.

Full disclosure, I don't apply for Sheep, am not invested, so my opinion is not from a stake holders point of reference.

 

[Jethro]

100% random bonus draw will kneecap the top point pool guys based on sheer volume. The quantity of "random numbers" for all 3 point Sheep apps in 2023 was nearly equal to the number for the max point pool, when points are squared. Add up the 1-20 point pools, square their points, and the 20+ guys don't have much of a chance.
I like bonus points for all draws, but believe there needs to be a split for max point guys and the remaining going random, both using bonus points. The percentages should probably be adjusted based on species tag quotas.

Full disclosure, I don't apply for Sheep, am not invested, so my opinion is not from a stake holders point of reference.

When I read your previous post, question that I had for you, is there enough tags to do some on points and some random? Would be nice to see a system that doesn’t totally screw the high point holder, but gives the lessors at least a mathematical chance.

I’m not invested in either, only curious. I don’t follow M/S tag quotas.

 

[manitou1]

To any non residents who are considering starting to buy Wyoming Moose Preference Points-
2353 non residents bought their first moose preference point in Wyoming last year bringing the total number of people waiting for a moose permit up to 11,964. Since Wyoming is now only giving out around 30 bull permits yearly, a new person entering is projected to wait 398 years before drawing. Unless a person plans to try to outlive those in front of them, there is zero reason to buy moose preference points. Even the few cow tags available will take several decades to draw.

To those non residents who are already invested-
*If you have less than 10 points, your chances of drawing before you die are slim to none. Your best chance is to outlive and outlast the thousands of people ahead of you to some day be able to use your walker to steady your rifle for the shot at 90 years old.
*If you have 15 points, you are currently looking at just shy of 3,000 people in front of you. It will take about 94 years before you reach the top. Your chances of drawing a bull permit before you die are also slim but if you are young enough, it may be worth waiting for the chance.
*If you have 20 points currently, you only have 848 people ahead of you! Only 28 more years to go before you reach the top...

Seriously people, why are we still giving the WG&F our money for this? Is it the hope that they will go random some day with weighted points? If they do that a person would have less than a 1 in 400 chance the first year and it would go downhill from there. There is no scenario where it makes sense to buy points unless you want to donate to the WG&F. Even then, I would argue there are much better places to donate your money.

Even us WY residents are losing any hope at drawing our once-in-lifetime moose tag.

 

[Laramie]

When I read your previous post, question that I had for you, is there enough tags to do some on points and some random? Would be nice to see a system that doesn’t totally screw the high point holder, but gives the lessors at least a mathematical chance.

I’m not invested in either, only curious. I don’t follow M/S tag quotas.

Currently with the 90/10 split, it will take many years for the guys with 20 points to draw. If that is cut in half, most in that point class won't draw in their lifetime. Keep in mind, when they started investing, there were more tags and a higher % offered for nonresident hunters. The system isn't what they started investing in. I do believe the residents deserve 90%, or more of the tags. I just feel the WG&F should do something to compensate the guys who invested for 1/4 of their life towards something that will never come to fruition - as promised by the director of the game and fish when they first introduced the point system. They have an easy way out imo... allow points to be converted to ADE and most would be happy.

 

[Laramie]

Even us WY residents are losing any hope at drawing our once-in-lifetime moose tag.

I was lucky enough to help guide 2 residents this year in 38. Both had max points. One was 80 years old. Had a great time and so glad they finally got tags.

 

[Jethro]

allow points to be converted to ADE

Interesting idea. Haven’t heard that one before.

 

[wapitibob]

Moose/Sheep are a lot older draws than E/D/A so I really doubt the dept would entertain a conversion of points. 30 points is max going into 2025 for M/S, 19 for E/D/A.

 

[ianpadron]

Wow that's crazy to see the math behind it.

Only place I've ever built points as a non-res is WY, and just for deer.

Gonna keep playing that game and plan on working a lil harder to fund some AK and BC adventures for sheep/moose/goat

 

[Laramie]

Moose/Sheep are a lot older draws than E/D/A so I really doubt the dept would entertain a conversion of points. 30 points is max going into 2025 for M/S, 19 for E/D/A.

You probably aren't wrong but those points have always been cheaper. Money wise likely a win for the g&f but it would hurt those with a lot of points for dea. However a max point antelope, deer or elk hunt would be reasonable compensation for the loss of the oil tag they invested in imo.

 

[RunNGunSC]

The last proposal I read included delayed implementation. They were giving 4 years to the top point holders to burn their points. There will always be the next guy in line but they need to just find a fix for an unsustainable system.

 

[wapitibob]

The last proposal I read included delayed implementation. They were giving 4 years to the top point holders to burn their points. There will always be the next guy in line but they need to just find a fix for an unsustainable system.

correct

Section 4.
The game and fish commission shall promulgate all rules necessary to implement the provisions of this act for transitioning preference points to bonus points and establishing a weighted bonus point random drawing for moose and ram bighorn sheep hunting seasons not later than January 1, 2029.

 

[Laramie]

The last proposal I read included delayed implementation. They were giving 4 years to the top point holders to burn their points. There will always be the next guy in line but they need to just find a fix for an unsustainable system.

They can try to dress it up how they like but that comes nowhere close to doing justice for the top point holders. In that scenario, most guys over 20 points won't even have a chance to draw a tag... even a cow tag

 

[ShakyE]

Thanks for the info. Gonna rethink my point strategies.

 

[Laramie]

Thanks for the info. Gonna rethink my point strategies.

My original post was old... it has gotten exponentially worse.