To ai or not to ai my new tikka 223 ranahan

[dårlig jeger]

I am intrigued by doing a 223 ai, but my factory tikka 223 hammers. I'd hate to chase some speed and lose that accuracy, but I'd love to be able to shoot either 223 or 223ai and have a great barrel.

I do hand load 223 for the tikka, but I don't reload. I just buy cheap brass and load new, I don't clean/prep/size used brass. It's still cheaper than buying anything factory loaded with the 77tmk and I get good ammo. I'd love to be able to keep doing that and add an AI load for hunting.

What fps could a guy reasonably expect to gain by going AI from a 16" tikka with XBR and 77tmks?

 

[RockAndSage]

What fps could a guy reasonably expect to gain by going AI from a 16" tikka with XBR and 77tmks?

My understanding is that, depending on the individual barrel, roughly speaking it's about like adding 2-4" of barrel length. So, anywhere from 50-150ish FPS. So, part of this for me is being able to get the benefits of a chopped barrel for suppressed, without the drawbacks of the velocity loss.

 

[260284]

I have a Varmint 223 that hammers, but I don't hunt with it much as it is a heavy pig. I see a 18" spiral fluted 1-8" twist 223AI in my future from LS Wild. I have the same barrel in 6 Creedmoor and it is a hammer.

 

[207North]

One claimed benefit to the Ackley is that with the 40 shoulder the hot gasses converge in the neck which is protected by the brass and results in less throat wear.

 

[260284]

One claimed benefit to the Ackley is that with the 40 shoulder the hot gasses converge in the neck which is protected by the brass and results in less throat wear.

And less brass trimming.

 

[bnewt3]

lol if I was a smart person I’d have 6 broke horses 22lr’s matching 223’s and matching 6 or 6.5 creedmoors. I don’t know what in the world I’d do with all that time and space and thought? I would say I could get in trouble chasing women but I’m ugly and more like an arc than a weatherby….probably end up learning how to play video games or something grin.

Out of curiosity, why 6 of each?

 

[BradArnett]

I said, "I wouldn’t bother. What does it enable you to do that you can’t do with the standard chamber?" If you want to have a go at me because I looked at the reloading manuals and decided it wasn't worth my time, knock yourself out, Brad. I never realized that the only way to know whether something was worth it to me was to spend 20 years using it.

If you want to tinker around with something for some extra FPS, go for it! The manuals I looked at indicated 75-200 FPS advantages for .223 AI vs .223. If I want a bit more performance out of a .224 caliber rifle, I have a .22-250 or I can shoot 5.56 in my Tikka .223. I have nothing against .223 AI, it just doesn't do anything useful for me.

As I have said elsewhere, my life is too short and my job pays too well by the hour to reload .223. To me, .223 is a practice round for high volume centerfire shooting in field positions between 200 and 600 yards. I don't want to reload 5000 .223 every year. My time is worth more than the money I would save doing that (I'm writing this response while working from home listening to a conference call. So even this RokSlide time isn't wasted). An extra 75-200 FPS also doesn't get me anything there. The ADI 69-grain load already produces excellent accuracy in my rifle at a trajectory that is close to my hunting rifle between 100-600 yards. And, if I really want more FPS than a .223, I can shoot Frontier 5.56 at 3150 FPS. When I can get excellent Frontier 5.56 for $0.45-50 per round and ADI .223 for $0.70-75 per round, it's not worth my time to reload for it.

It is also not legal to use .224 caliber bullets for big game in my state. I generally only reload for hunting purposes. If I did reload more, then the .223AI certainly has some attractions (as do AI chamberings in general).

Nah, good luck. Just wondered if you'd used one but figured it was a no. Ill get back to more shooting and less posting .

 

[coyotekilla]

1st 18 down the pipe, I'm a happy hunter. The 75gr measure about .5 outside to outside, I think I can live with a green barrel shooting .25 outa the box. 75's are about 2600 fps with the 20" so some Ai improvement will get me where id like to be.

 

[Kaleb]

Out of curiosity, why 6 of each?

Me my wife two daughters and two extra for when we’re leaving and something wants to be lame rip a shoe off etc.

 

[Kaleb]

If you mean guns not horses that’s my mistake in grammar. Each of us having our own gun and two spares would be fine too I suppose. Cheaper than keeping up the spare horses lol.

 

[RockAndSage]

Cheaper than keeping up the spare horses lol.

#BurnAmmoNotHay

 

[Kaleb]

#BurnAmmoNotHay

Ammo is super cheap compared to hay right?…haha

 

[Kaleb]

It’s probably all ego or pride if you boil it down. I humbly say I get enjoyment out of knowing we’ve had the same stock for a long time and we make the riding stock not buy it and will always be able to. Kinda the same for ammo I suppose? Pretty stupid financially but helps with taxes….lol.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I am old enough to remember when P. O. Ackley wrote his books (1962 & 66). He was looking for better ballistics, especially velocity. Back then we had less powder varieties to choose from, especially slow burning, The .220 Swift was a great caliber for him to "improve". The Swift had a reputation (well earned) of burning up barrels quickly. One of my Dad's friends bought a new Model 70 and after several hundred rounds it was done. Even with his changes in case dimensions, there was not all that much improvement. In the last 20 years or so, many more slow burning powders have hit the market. With large case capacity and smaller bullets, the .220 was reborn. I have 4 different shooting buddies who shoot the .220 AI who wouldn't have given it a second thought if I hadn't started playing around with it. My current rifle is the 3rd one I have built and the best one yet.

 

[ElPollo]

These are good points. The biggest value I'd get out of the AI chambering is pushing the 77TMKs faster, out of a bolt gun. That is very much worth it to me. The utility of shooting the 55gr is getting a bunch of practice in while building up a pile of fireformed brass, before working up an AI load, re-zeroing, and then sticking to that.

I can respect that. At my usual DA, I can get to 450 yards with factory TMKs in my 18” barrel. I shoot that load out to 600 regularly, but 450 is well past the longest shot I’ve ever taken at anything with hair. Others may need that speed more than me. Handloading also bores me to tears, so I’m not the ideal case for an AI.

 

[TradLife406]

I bought a ai pipe for my brand new 223 on the LS wild group buy.
Why? Because I want to tinker
Also went to a 18" from the oem 20".

Right now my 20" with 25.5 gr of n140 is doing 2830 with only 50 down for pipe. It should speed up a little. The ai should be about the same or a little more with the shorter barrel.

 

[Aux Arc]

I've only had around 20 years experience with the 223ai in around 8-10 rifles. Probably my favorite clambering of all time. What has been your negative issues with your 223ai rifles that you wouldn't bother with it any more? Now you have me Interested in your 223ai experience and problems? Pretty sure I already know the answer to my questions

I have a question for your 20 years of experience, what is normal powder capacity increase going to the ai?

I ask because while I am familiar with several ai cartridges, 223 isnt one of them. I’ve assumed based on internet reading you gain 1.5-2 grains but I have load data from sierra that shows 3 grains and 200 fps increase over standard with same bullets and powder. I did notice that they seat the bullets .080 longer in the ai data which could account for an extra grain of powder.

Ive got an ai reamer ordered with enough freebore I should be able to seat my bullets pretty far out and an actual extra 200 fps would be awesome.

To the OP- if you do decide to go with the ackley and plan to shoot heavies I would have the smith extend the freebore so you can seat them long. May as well get max benefit if youre going to do it.

 

[coyotekilla]

I have a question for your 20 years of experience, what is normal powder capacity increase going to the ai?

I ask because while I am familiar with several ai cartridges, 223 isnt one of them. I’ve assumed based on internet reading you gain 1.5-2 grains but I have load data from sierra that shows 3 grains and 200 fps increase over standard with same bullets and powder. I did notice that they seat the bullets .080 longer in the ai data which could account for an extra grain of powder.

Ive got an ai reamer ordered with enough freebore I should be able to seat my bullets pretty far out and an actual extra 200 fps would be awesome.

To the OP- if you do decide to go with the ackley and plan to shoot heavies I would have the smith extend the freebore so you can seat them long. May as well get max benefit if youre going to do it.

Tikka throated the barrel with a 170 freebore already. The mags are 2.3 limited, the chamber 2.479 i think. A proper Ai they set the barrel back 1 turn so that may tighten my throat. Im planning on sending a dummy case with, if I do it.

 

[BradArnett]

I have a question for your 20 years of experience, what is normal powder capacity increase going to the ai?

I ask because while I am familiar with several ai cartridges, 223 isnt one of them. I’ve assumed based on internet reading you gain 1.5-2 grains but I have load data from sierra that shows 3 grains and 200 fps increase over standard with same bullets and powder. I did notice that they seat the bullets .080 longer in the ai data which could account for an extra grain of powder.

Ive got an ai reamer ordered with enough freebore I should be able to seat my bullets pretty far out and an actual extra 200 fps would be awesome.

To the OP- if you do decide to go with the ackley and plan to shoot heavies I would have the smith extend the freebore so you can seat them long. May as well get max benefit if youre going to do it.

I'd say 1.5-2 grain is reasonable. 100-200fps is where you'll be with speeds over vanilla 223 with like bullets. 75's at 2.45" is a good place to be. A 75 at 3000-3050 is easy to reach in formed brass with varget, xbr, or r15 in a 20-22" barrel. I use h335 with 50gr bullets in ff loads. It meters well but is temp sesitive. Also keep in mind that straight taper cases are good at hiding pressure signs so don't go wild with it. Rem700's with the .378" bolt face tend to have sloppy firing pin holes and you'll see cratered pimers from that. Bushing them will fix that. I haven't seen that with my one and only tikka 223ai. All my rifles have shot ff loads very well so I've used them for practice and hunting.

 

[Aux Arc]

I'd say 1.5-2 grain is reasonable. 100-200fps is where you'll be with speeds over vanilla 223 with like bullets. 75's at 2.45" is a good place to be. A 75 at 3000-3050 is easy to reach in formed brass with varget, xbr, or r15 in a 20-22" barrel. I use h335 with 50gr bullets in ff loads. It meters well but is temp sesitive. Also keep in mind that straight taper cases are good at hiding pressure signs so don't go wild with it. Rem700's with the .378" bolt face tend to have sloppy firing pin holes and you'll see cratered pimers from that. Bushing them will fix that. I haven't seen that with my one and only tikka 223ai. All my rifles have shot ff loads very well so I've used them for practice and hunting.

Ok, thats a lot of what I expected, thanks.