Time for new sleep system. Quilt+Bivvy+Floorless shelter?

[___DAN___]

The single wall shelters and bivy set ups are a good shelter system to start with. That Silex looks good. I would want to be able to sit up in it without my head hitting the sides or top of it. The floored shelters are usually more comfortable, especially in bad weather and in early season when bugs are still active (mosquitos and carpenter ants). With the floorless you get a bigger shelter for the same weight usually. It will be a personal choice on what you like better. When you have a comfortable sleep system you sleep better and hunt better.
I use my Hileberg Niak a lot because its more secure, convenient and comfortable, but it is heavy. For good weather I use a Tarptent Bowfin or Kifaru Supertarp and bivy set up.

I would recommend a sleeping Pad with an R value of 5 or more, this will allow your sleeping bag or quilt to achieve its temperature rating more accurately. I use quilts in warm weather, but in cold weather they are way too drafty. I end up constantly tucking them in to stay warm instead of sleeping. I use a 30 degree montbell spiral hugger and Xlite sleeping pad for most September hunts. Once temps start getting in the low 30's or less, I use the 20 Kifaru Slick bag and Xtherm pad.

Thanks. My current thermo-rest pad is a prolite, which is only like a 2.4 R value. I will try try to upgrade that R value this year.

 

[Poser]

Do you use any tarp?

I have a few different tarp tents depending on the situation.

 

[Jimss]

A great option that I've used for years is my Hilleberg Nallo GT 4 season tent. I have the option to use the tent, fly, footprint in super wet/snow conditions. For ultra-light conditions I use only the fly plus painters plastic. The 4 season Nallo fly is bomber-proof for extreme wind, snow, rain, etc. I've used the fly on several trips to Alaska with lots of rain. There also is an incredible amount of room! I like vertical walls, and lots of room for me plus all my gear. It's really nice having the flexibility of using all or part of the tent/fly depending upon the conditions.

I would also recommend a different pack! A 4800 cu in pack isn't squat for packing out game! Most 4800 packs also aren't designed for hauling loads over around 30 lbs. A larger volume bag will likely save you a trip or 2 for hauling out large species like elk! I can also toss in my large volume bag a load on my first trip out. You will likely find that a pack/frame similar to Kifaru or Stone Glacier may weigh slightly more but will be a lot easier on your body than your current pack with a light or heavy load. Plain and simple, you will be able to handle a lot more bulk and weight! I use my giant kifaru while scouting and merely cinch down my load. If I had my spotter, tripod, etc in a smaller pack/frame my shoulders and back would be a lot sorer at the end of the day!

Larger bags don't necessarily mean heavier weight. New materials are super strong and light. You can also cinch down your load super tight when not fully loaded. Anyway, I really would consider a larger bag with a frame designed for 100 lb+ loads......your body will thank you!

 

[Steelhead]

Katabatic Sawatch 15 degree quilt with 1 oz extra down.
Thermarest X-Therm
Tarptent "Moment DW" 1 person tent
...and a Matty McMatt face

Been in the snow and miserable cold wet storms in this setup and been able to stay warm but occasionally wearing my woolies and longjohns.
The Tarptent Moment is a bit over 2# but really quick and easy to set up and doesn't need much room which is nice when I'm on the move, a little tight inside the netting but has decent vestibules and I can set up and change clothes and cook etc. Also have the TT - Double Rainbow which gives a good deal more elbow room with just a little more weight. Also easy to setup.
Bought the Argali Rincon 2P floorless tent this year but didn't get a chance to use it so far. Would save over a pound but requires a bigger footprint and a bit more setup, plus no bug netting without the insert.
I switched to the quilt a few years ago and love it over a traditional mummy.

 

[___DAN___]

A great option that I've used for years is my Hilleberg Nallo GT 4 season tent. I have the option to use the tent, fly, footprint in super wet/snow conditions. For ultra-light conditions I use only the fly plus painters plastic. The 4 season Nallo fly is bomber-proof for extreme wind, snow, rain, etc. I've used the fly on several trips to Alaska with lots of rain. There also is an incredible amount of room! I like vertical walls, and lots of room for me plus all my gear. It's really nice having the flexibility of using all or part of the tent/fly depending upon the conditions.

I would also recommend a different pack! A 4800 cu in pack isn't squat for packing out game! Most 4800 packs also aren't designed for hauling loads over around 30 lbs. A larger volume bag will likely save you a trip or 2 for hauling out large species like elk! I can also toss in my large volume bag a load on my first trip out. You will likely find that a pack/frame similar to Kifaru or Stone Glacier may weigh slightly more but will be a lot easier on your body than your current pack with a light or heavy load. Plain and simple, you will be able to handle a lot more bulk and weight! I use my giant kifaru while scouting and merely cinch down my load. If I had my spotter, tripod, etc in a smaller pack/frame my shoulders and back would be a lot sorer at the end of the day!

Larger bags don't necessarily mean heavier weight. New materials are super strong and light. You can also cinch down your load super tight when not fully loaded. Anyway, I really would consider a larger bag with a frame designed for 100 lb+ loads......your body will thank you!

So on the pack I didn't mention I own a 4800 Exo Mountain /w their K3 frame with a lid. So I actually have around 5200+CU. Honestly I don't want one too much bigger. My direction now is to cut weight and bulk size with my sleep system and my goal will be reached.

 

[Jimss]

What happens if you get a bull elk sized game down with a medium bag? How many more trips will it take vs stable loads with a large volume bag and solid design frame? I guess you can strap it to the frame but I’ve had several spooky situations with unstable loads on a frame.

Also how do you get an animal plus a chunk of meat out your first trip with camp and/or gear? I’ve been on many Alaska trips where I want to get camp plus an animal out in 1 trip. It isn’t easy even with a large volume bag!

I guess everyone has a different strategy but if you pack many critters out of deep, dark places you will likely want to consider a large volume bag.

 

[BBob]

My direction now is to cut weight and bulk size with my sleep system and my goal will be reached.

I can go 10 days early season generally 38lbs or under in 4000ci pack. I do not starve either. F trying to haul big ass loads of meat. We carry 30-40 lbs max in the nasty steep bushwhacking country and just shuttle more loads.

 

[Poser]

What happens if you get a bull elk sized game down with a medium bag? How many more trips will it take vs stable loads with a large volume bag and solid design frame? I guess you can strap it to the frame but I’ve had several spooky situations with unstable loads on a frame.

Also how do you get an animal plus a chunk of meat out your first trip with camp and/or gear? I’ve been on many Alaska trips where I want to get camp plus an animal out in 1 trip. It isn’t easy even with a large volume bag!

I guess everyone has a different strategy but if you pack many critters out of deep, dark places you will likely want to consider a large volume bag.

If you’re using a pack with a meat hauler Design, it doesn’t matter if your bag is 2000 or 8000 as the meat will be on the load shelf.

 

[Jimss]

Glad to hear smaller volume bags with or without small frames work for some. I prefer to take fewer trips with heavier wt fairly comfortably with oversized bags plus a frame designed for 100+ lb loads. Saving 1 or 2 trips is definitely worth it to me!

I use my 100+ lb frame and large bag cinched down with small 30 to 40 lb loads all the time. It feels like I have hardly anything on my back. Smaller volume packs with the same load and my neck and back would be super sore glassing each day. The taller frame makes a huge difference in distribution of wt, comfort, etc.

I can see where a meat hauler frame with smaller bag could potentially work fine …..until an animal is harvested. If the load is stable I can see how that may work….but… It’s also a matter of distributing the heaviest weight close and tight to your core.

Is it possible to load meat plus camp/gear next to your core rather than placing the smaller bag further outside and away from your core causing torquing of your back and neck? A tall meat hauler frame with tall load lifters may help but I still see a major problem with a bag with 30 to 40+ lbs placed on the outside of bulky meat! I can guarantee you will constantly be bending forward while hiking rather than standing upright with a proper load. Hauling a hefty load this way in rough terrain is almost dangerous!

A good meat hauler frame likely weighs similar to a 100+ Lb capable kifaru or stone glacier frame so it’s a matter of a few ounces more wt of a larger bag. A larger, longer bag will provide a more stable load with weight distributed tight to your core…which is what you want!

I don’t see many in Alaska and elsewhere that haul multi-day camps plus animals out long distances going the smallish bag and/or meat hauling rack method? If it works for you good deal! I spend weeks scouting, hunting, and hauling critters out of nasty places each year…and you know my preference!

Sorry to drag a little off topic!

 

[anthnichols]

A great option that I've used for years is my Hilleberg Nallo GT 4 season tent. I have the option to use the tent, fly, footprint in super wet/snow conditions. For ultra-light conditions I use only the fly plus painters plastic. The 4 season Nallo fly is bomber-proof for extreme wind, snow, rain, etc. I've used the fly on several trips to Alaska with lots of rain. There also is an incredible amount of room! I like vertical walls, and lots of room for me plus all my gear. It's really nice having the flexibility of using all or part of the tent/fly depending upon the conditions.

I would also recommend a different pack! A 4800 cu in pack isn't squat for packing out game! Most 4800 packs also aren't designed for hauling loads over around 30 lbs. A larger volume bag will likely save you a trip or 2 for hauling out large species like elk! I can also toss in my large volume bag a load on my first trip out. You will likely find that a pack/frame similar to Kifaru or Stone Glacier may weigh slightly more but will be a lot easier on your body than your current pack with a light or heavy load. Plain and simple, you will be able to handle a lot more bulk and weight! I use my giant kifaru while scouting and merely cinch down my load. If I had my spotter, tripod, etc in a smaller pack/frame my shoulders and back would be a lot sorer at the end of the day!

Larger bags don't necessarily mean heavier weight. New materials are super strong and light. You can also cinch down your load super tight when not fully loaded. Anyway, I really would consider a larger bag with a frame designed for 100 lb+ loads......your body will thank you!

I also have the Hilleberg Nallo. Great tent and like you said. Multiple options/configurations depending on weather. Nice to have a solid tent when weather gets pad, or bare bones it in warm, dry weather.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I've tried quilts in tents and tarp shelters. Love the weight savings. But I sleep cold in them, probably because I toss and turn throughout the night, letting in drafts and cold air.

I love the combination of quilt, underquilt, and hammock though. Have never slept better.

I move all night too. Look at the EE Conundrum, my -10* LW overstuffed quilt w/ collar and heavy Hoodlum works for any temp...I just vent it accordingly. In the SS2 Tarptent I use an EXPED mat w/ a 6 R rating...it's perfection. For hammock camping a good underquilt.

 

[Trackerbacker]

Glad to hear smaller volume bags with or without small frames work for some. I prefer to take fewer trips with heavier wt fairly comfortably with oversized bags plus a frame designed for 100+ lb loads. Saving 1 or 2 trips is definitely worth it to me!

I use my 100+ lb frame and large bag cinched down with small 30 to 40 lb loads all the time. It feels like I have hardly anything on my back. Smaller volume packs with the same load and my neck and back would be super sore glassing each day. The taller frame makes a huge difference in distribution of wt, comfort, etc.

I can see where a meat hauler frame with smaller bag could potentially work fine …..until an animal is harvested. If the load is stable I can see how that may work….but… It’s also a matter of distributing the heaviest weight close and tight to your core.

Is it possible to load meat plus camp/gear next to your core rather than placing the smaller bag further outside and away from your core causing torquing of your back and neck? A tall meat hauler frame with tall load lifters may help but I still see a major problem with a bag with 30 to 40+ lbs placed on the outside of bulky meat! I can guarantee you will constantly be bending forward while hiking rather than standing upright with a proper load. Hauling a hefty load this way in rough terrain is almost dangerous!

A good meat hauler frame likely weighs similar to a 100+ Lb capable kifaru or stone glacier frame so it’s a matter of a few ounces more wt of a larger bag. A larger, longer bag will provide a more stable load with weight distributed tight to your core…which is what you want!

I don’t see many in Alaska and elsewhere that haul multi-day camps plus animals out long distances going the smallish bag and/or meat hauling rack method? If it works for you good deal! I spend weeks scouting, hunting, and hauling critters out of nasty places each year…and you know my preference!

Sorry to drag a little off topic!

The bag doesn't define what weight can be carried, only volume it can contain.

The frame determines the mass that can be loaded.

Hence why many companies have 1 frame for several size bags.

And. Well. Science.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

So on the pack I didn't mention I own a 4800 Exo Mountain /w their K3 frame with a lid. So I actually have around 5200+CU. Honestly I don't want one too much bigger. My direction now is to cut weight and bulk size with my sleep system and my goal will be reached.

I have the same pack, Dan and run a Katabatic Alsek (22-degree). I've stuffed it, tent, pad, water, loads of food etc. on some extended trips. I previously had a down-stuffed Sierra Designs bag (12-degree). It is a great bag, but takes up MUCH more room than the quilt.

It's a great quilt and super warm.

They have a unique attachment system to keep the drafts out and you'll definitely want to utilize it in colder temperatures. I've never used it in warmer temps though.

 

[Hectocotylus]

Seek outside DST, UGQ 0 degree quilt, xtherm pad. Washington wet side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsckorohod]

After this years hunt I'm wanting to upgrade my sleep system set up. My set up isn't too bad now but its a little bulky for my pack and its weight isn't desirable.. Right now I use a mummy zero bag that is like 4 lbs. and I use a 2p tent is about the same I'd guess. I use a 4800 exo k3 pack and its getting pretty tight. I almost upgraded before this fall and just ended up not doing it. I spiked 6 miles into and around 11,500 and just took my pad and a light blanket and froze my tail off. I was thinking my zero bag was over kill and too much weight for opener and wasnt the case for me. I slept with my puffy gear and that helped.

Anyhow, I'm thinking of floorless shelter like SO silex and a bBvy/quilt set up. What is everyone's go to sleep system for a bivy/quilt tarp or floorless shelter type set up?

I use a WM wrapped in a bivy if I anticipate condensation issues. . Love my SO tipi

 

[___DAN___]

Glad to hear smaller volume bags with or without small frames work for some. I prefer to take fewer trips with heavier wt fairly comfortably with oversized bags plus a frame designed for 100+ lb loads. Saving 1 or 2 trips is definitely worth it to me!

I use my 100+ lb frame and large bag cinched down with small 30 to 40 lb loads all the time. It feels like I have hardly anything on my back. Smaller volume packs with the same load and my neck and back would be super sore glassing each day. The taller frame makes a huge difference in distribution of wt, comfort, etc.

I can see where a meat hauler frame with smaller bag could potentially work fine …..until an animal is harvested. If the load is stable I can see how that may work….but… It’s also a matter of distributing the heaviest weight close and tight to your core.

Is it possible to load meat plus camp/gear next to your core rather than placing the smaller bag further outside and away from your core causing torquing of your back and neck? A tall meat hauler frame with tall load lifters may help but I still see a major problem with a bag with 30 to 40+ lbs placed on the outside of bulky meat! I can guarantee you will constantly be bending forward while hiking rather than standing upright with a proper load. Hauling a hefty load this way in rough terrain is almost dangerous!

A good meat hauler frame likely weighs similar to a 100+ Lb capable kifaru or stone glacier frame so it’s a matter of a few ounces more wt of a larger bag. A larger, longer bag will provide a more stable load with weight distributed tight to your core…which is what you want!

I don’t see many in Alaska and elsewhere that haul multi-day camps plus animals out long distances going the smallish bag and/or meat hauling rack method? If it works for you good deal! I spend weeks scouting, hunting, and hauling critters out of nasty places each year…and you know my preference!

Sorry to drag a little off topic!

Thanks for the feedback. I based my pack size off what I thought was reasonable for a 3-6 day hunt, and also if I wanted use it as a day pack. I did several weighted rucks with it to ensure comfortably and to familiarize my self with it. So I had a KUIU 5900 icon and sold it soon as I got back from Colorado year or so ago. I def did my research this time before buying. With that said, I almost went with a Stone Glacier and would have if this one didn't work out when I tested it this summer. With the K3 frame they offer it has been proven and tested with over 250lbs loads. If I would be using bags for 7-10 days I might add a bigger pack. I just try to evenly distribute the weight as I pack it. Anyhow that is for another thread. No worries. I do appreciate the feed back.

 

[___DAN___]

So far here is what I'm thinking,

Quilt- So I got a quote for a El Coyote quilt. I think I will head that direction for the quilt.

Pad- I'm going to upgrade my R-value with a Xtherm pad.

Shelter- I'm thinking the Guardian or Cimarron SO shelter with a stove jack.

Bivy- I'm thinking OR bivy sack or a Bora bivy for the unexpected weather.

I think with total weight system I'm around the 5.5lb range. Add 2lbs with the medium stove.

My current bag and tent alone is 10lb range. I believe I wont have any issues with space now.

Thanks for all the feedback as usual.

 

[___DAN___]

Thanks for the feedback. I based my pack size off what I thought was reasonable for a 3-6 day hunt, and also if I wanted use it as a day pack. I did several weighted rucks with it to ensure comfortably and to familiarize my self with it. So I had a KUIU 3500 icon and sold it soon as I got back from Colorado year or so ago. I def did my research this time before buying. With that said, I almost went with a Stone Glacier and would have if this one didn't work out when I tested it this summer. With the K3 frame they offer it has been proven and tested with over 250lbs loads. If I would be using bags for 7-10 days I might add a bigger pack. I just try to evenly distribute the weight as I pack it. Anyhow that is for another thread. No worries. I do appreciate the feed back.

 

[*zap*]

Thanks. My current thermo-rest pad is a prolite, which is only like a 2.4 R value. I will try try to upgrade that R value this year.

I just got a Trail Pro, R4.4 and I have a ridgerest which is R2 which gives me options and the TrailPro is self inflating 3" which means it has foam inside in case of failure.

 

[___DAN___]

I just got a Trail Pro, R4.4 and I have a ridgerest which is R2 which gives me options and the TrailPro is self inflating 3" which means it has foam inside in case of failure.

My current prolite is SI too but didnt realize it has foam in them as well.