Tikka 223: Pierced Primers and Firing Pin Size

[naked wombats]

Interesting. I've had no issue with the bonefrog on my stainless purchased last year. Are yours blued or stainless?

 

[bpitcher]

Interesting. I've had no issue with the bonefrog on my stainless purchased last year. Are yours blued or stainless?

Blued 20" muzzle threaded

 

[Odd1out]

What are ppls thoughts on the fed205m, equal or better to cci 450? In respect to cup thickness.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

 

[43.6N]

What are ppls thoughts on the fed205m, equal or better to cci 450? In respect to cup thickness.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

1500 used since August, without any pierced primers. The oversized packaging is stupid, but the primers aren’t.

 

[Lawnboi]

What are ppls thoughts on the fed205m, equal or better to cci 450? In respect to cup thickness.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

Same cup thickness. They work fine.

 

[nm.otter]

Mystery solved, those (CCI 400s) are inappropriate primers for 223, even moreso for 5.56, and cause problems all over the place.

So if they're not for .223, where are they used?

Does this also apply to the BR-4?

 

[naked wombats]

Blued 20" muzzle threaded

Mine is 20" stainless, factory muzzle threaded as well. Has always been shot with a suppressor (early nomad 30).

I wonder if the parts change was rolled out to the blued models first.

Will try to look at mine this weekend and see what it has.

 

[mt terry d]

I've had issues with the CCI 400s
I may have a compromised firing pin as the first few hundred rounds
fired in this rifle were AAC, with which I had several pierced primers and split cases
Don't think I've had any piercings with the 450s and don't reload the AAC cases anymore

Where's the best source for new firing pins?

 

[Formidilosus]

CCI400’s have always been more susceptible to pierced primers. Fed 205’s are not. Nor have I seen it with BR4’s.

 

[Lawnboi]

So if they're not for .223, where are they used?

Does this also apply to the BR-4?

Lower pressure rounds of the past. Lots use them and are fine, the are just a thinner cup. REM 6 1/2 is the same thin cup small rifle primer. Honestly I don’t know why they even make them anymore with the current trends.

Br-4 uses the thicker cup. Cci 450 and br4 have been almost identical and interchangeable for me .

Fed 205s work fine

REM 7 1/2 good too

 

[43.6N]

Mine is 20" stainless, factory muzzle threaded as well. Has always been shot with a suppressor (early nomad 30).

I wonder if the parts change was rolled out to the blued models first.

Will try to look at mine this weekend and see what it has.

Let’s be careful not to immediately assume that Beretta/Sako/Tikka have spec’d a new firing pin diameter for the 223.

I don’t know enough about their manufacture process to explain what appears to be a smaller hole on the bolt.

But so far what we do know is that when OP called, the cs reps had no idea if there had been a change or not.

Very possible they could have sent an undersized pin out from the factory. Tikka QC is good, but stuff can sneak by once in a while. Or maybe that much variance is within their “spec” of acceptable.
All I’m saying is there are a lot of possibilities to consider in addition to a “new” firing pin diameter.

 

[Hydra6]

 

[Hydra6]

I run CCI450s in all my PRS small rifle primer applications.

I had issues with 223 with heavy projectiles (75 ELDMs) and some basic Wolf small rifle primers and after research found that there is a thin Wolf small rifle primer and then a 556 Wolf small rifle primer plus a Magnum Wolf small rifle primer. I put the basic Wolf small rifle primers away and only use the 556Wolf or the Magnum Wolf small rifle primers for 223/556.

 

[Hydra6]

Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

Small Rifle Magnum

CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41.
CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite."

 

[naked wombats]

There definitely appears been a change in the last year or two. Notice the different firing pin bodies and hole sizes.


View attachment 1028538

Fair point. I was making the assumption based on this photo.

 

[nm.otter]

Should have bought more of those BR-4s on sale

 

[ResearchinStuff]

So if they're not for .223, where are they used?

Does this also apply to the BR-4?

222 and lower pressure rounds. More reading here:

The Primer on Primers

Due to the primer shortage and some confusion on primers in another thread, I did a little research and came up with this info from the SKSboards site. I thought it would be helpful here... PRIMER CHART & REFERENCE GUIDE Small Handgun Standard .017" cup thickness CCI 500 Federal 100 - Has a...

carolinafirearmsforum.com

 

[bpitcher]

Let’s be careful not to immediately assume that Beretta/Sako/Tikka have spec’d a new firing pin diameter for the 223.

I don’t know enough about their manufacture process to explain what appears to be a smaller hole on the bolt.

But so far what we do know is that when OP called, the cs reps had no idea if there had been a change or not.

Very possible they could have sent an undersized pin out from the factory. Tikka QC is good, but stuff can sneak by once in a while. Or maybe that much variance is within their “spec” of acceptable.
All I’m saying is there are a lot of possibilities to consider in addition to a “new” firing pin diameter.

You're right that we shouldn't be quick to assume that they've changed sizes, but it does seem likely.

There is a roughly .010 difference between the two older tikka firing pins (both 6.5cm) and the new .223. The firing pin holes have a corresponding .010 difference as well.

Hole sizes:
.072
.072
.062 (223)

FP diameters:
.068
.068
.058 (223)

I'd find it hard to believe that tikka had two oopsies and managed to correctly pair an out of spec pin with an out of spec hole. I'm making some assumptions with their manufacturing process there though.

Beretta said in their email that they are not compatible but had earlier pointed me to the standard pin as a replacement. I think its likely there is a disconnect somewhere between Beretta customer service and Tikka given that they have contradicted themselves.

I'll keep this updated as I get more information from them.