Thought I had settled on a good "first rifle + glass" combo, less sure now

[BAC]

New to the forum. What about Vortex or Tract optics as possible options?

Neither brand particularly interests me. Vortex's customer service is pretty great but also well practiced per the experience of my coworkers across a variety of their products. Tract I haven't heard of. Maybe they're good, sounds like from the one bigger topic in the scope evals that this is unlikely. I'll be using the scope to accuracy test both AR's but the upper it will live on will be my work gun, so it does have to adhere to policy requirements and that eliminates the vast majority of what would be recommended here just because of the requirements for 1x and having only a handful of permissible brands. Leupold, Trijicon, Aimpoint, Eotech, Nightforce, US Optics, Vortex, and maybe one other.

 

[leomort]

BAC,

Thank you for your reply. My question regarding Vortex is because I see their advertisements everywhere, from their podcast to them recommendations for Appleseed 22lr matches, NRL-22, MARS competition, etc. Granted I'm only putting it on 22lr, but it still cost money. Some of these guys are putty serious $$$ into their Vudoo, RimX plus scope. I don't want to get into an equipment race to be competitive but don't want to buy junk and have to keep upgrading either.

Tract optics is direct to consumer business model. I believe their two ex-Nikon employees who started their own business.

 

[fwafwow]

Tract optics is direct to consumer business model. I believe their two ex-Nikon employees who started their own business.

Tract Toric Ultra HD 3-15x50mm Field Eval

This is a field evaluation of the Tract Toric Ultra HD 3-15x50mm. This scope was sent to me from from Ryan Avery for evaluation. It was sent to him from a forum member. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 20 round proof group was just over 1.1 MOA...

rokslide.com

Apart from the evaluation results, the company (or at least the RS member who appears to work there) flip-flopped on the concept of drop testing. You can see it in the Q&A (or the notable post that was deleted but can still be found).

 

[leomort]

Fwafwow,

Yes, I think I seen the flip flop decision you're talking during my searching of the forums. A lot of good information which is why I joined. Looking forward to learning a lot.

 

[swampmaster]

My grandson is also on the skinny side. At 9 he's not even 70lbs. He's been shooting for a while and does well with the 5.56 and he loves to shoot my daughters 12 semiauto tac. Some kids are like I was when I was young. I knew I had to be able take the recoil if I was going to hang with the big guys. The kid I'm sure won't worry about the muzzle blast after watchiing him dump a mag of 12's. Sitting at the bench though and worrying about shot placement are a different story though. I think he will do pretty well with the 7-08 at min loads. I'll probably get him behind mine a few times before I complete his build. It couldn't hurt to have an extra rifle in the rack if he decides it's too much until he is older. Both of my kids moved into 30-06 at young ages after I purchased a 742 carbine and a 742 bdl lefty from my Uncle before he passed. The auto made recoil manageable and I restricted them to one round in the weapon and they knew if I caught them with more they would end up carrying my old HR 058 20ga instead of a fancy rifle.

 

[nagibson1]

Beat me to it, but to echo the above post^^

Re:recoil. The problem with guns for kids is that they are light, and recoil more as a result. A 7-08 with factory 140 gr loads out of a 7.5lb rifle is 16ft lb of recoil, 16ft lb being something of a threshold above which it can be demonstrably quantified that grown men shoot worse compared to a lower-recoiling rifle. I think its clearly too much recoil for a kid. Not that it cant be done, its just clearly worse than a lower-recoiling round, with roughly zero advantage. 120gr barnes ttsx ammo at 3000fps is actually less recoil (14.5ftlb) and kills plenty well for any adult out to 400 yards where it runs out of velocity to expand at my typical elevation. The hornady reduced recoil 7-08 uses a 120gr sst at about 2700fps and generates something like 12ftlb of recoil, and also kills deer sized critters **quite** well. Just to manage recoil for a kid my suggestion would be to utilize a lower-recoiling loading if you stick with 7-08. A suppressor on any gun would also make a huge difference, as I think half the issue for a lot of kids is the muzzle blast and concussion, rather than just the recoil.

This. Except I do it with a .270 and 06. There are lots of reduced recoil rounds and you can really tame these calibers with smaller charges and smaller bullets. 7mm and .30 have a LOT of bullet options- but so do .223, 6mm, 6.5, and so on. However, I like the 06 cause I can get it under 10lb of recoil with 110gr trainers and up to 220's for bears. .270 is similar. You can't really fo "up" with a 223. But you can't get down to a 223 with these either.

If you're training a kid at 40-200 yds, you can put 90-110 gr bullets in a 06 or 270 or 7mm with them moving at 2200ish. In a normal weight gun and larger scope, with their hands on the stock- and it's very manageable. My wife loves shooting my 06 training rounds. And they are deer worthy to 250 or so easy.

But I also love the .223 focus. 4lbs of recoil and cheap practice ammo is hard to beat. in time, you easily pay for the gun just in the difference in ammo prices, and not untraining flinches in shooters. For non reloaders, 223 is the way- 1 gun or 2 (cloned gun in higher caliber).
When I lived in FL 20 years ago, all my buddies shot .243's for low recoil. But the ammo expense isn't that much better than anything else. sometimes more than a 308. Thus the .223 has real advantages, and in the right hands kills a pile of critters.

Also, the Rokslide special is nice. I shoot tikkas because I'm a lefty and don't like 90 degree bolt lifts. They seem a little more accurate and versatile than brownings, and they are approaching Rem 700 for aftermarket stuff now.

 

[nagibson1]

But a cheap .22 for the kids to shoot. Teach them all of the basics to shooting on it, then move forward with a centerfire.

Agree. I had my kids shoot a .22, then an AR, then recoil reduced training rounds in a .270. All shoot better than me who never was taught and started on a 06 w/o a recoil pad. Then I just heat up the load until my kids says "I think that's enough recoil for me", and that's their hunting load. Scope accordingly.

I do think I'm gonna get a .223 though. When you start needing a $700+ scope for reliability- each rig gets pricey. Though I believe in reliability- esp on my mountain rifle.