this will be unpopular i am sure

[littlebuf]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that

 

[mt hunter22]

No maybe about it , Expect them to breed like rabbits and your elk and deer will be dramatically reduced..they are cutting the hunter out.

 

[mt hunter22]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...qwjIyQhKVEAy7Jg01TUHe9TA&ust=1402724106187967

this year down to 3000 some and no calves,, and all this without hunters..

 

[DaveC]

Based on 60-70% of the posts in this thread I think it'd be just fine if quite a few current hunters quit. The tinfoil hat stuff makes hunters as a group look pretty bad.

 

[realunlucky]

Based on 60-70% of the posts in this thread I think it'd be just fine if quite a few current hunters quit. The tinfoil hat stuff makes hunters as a group look pretty bad.

This was pretty helpful Dave. You presented no argument so we can't decide if you should quit hunting and wear a tinfoil hat the rest of your days or not. Jury is still out I guess

 

[JasonGNV]

please do explain how adding more predators to a controlled area (face it our "wildernesses" have boundaries of human population) could possibly raise the number of prey species. im all ears

Great question! Oregon will protect wolves, Cali already has a bill in to protect the few wolves they have. They are spreading across the west with the liberal mentality. I live on the East side of the sierras in NV., they will be here soon and I dread the day. Yes wolves area amazing animals, I'd love to have one on the wall, elk and deer taste much better so I prefer their numbers stay up and wolves stay away. I trap and coyotes are smart, elusive and hard to catch, a lot goes into learning coyotes. Wolves are even harder, bigger and more detrimental to a habitat 100x over. We can't keep coyote population regulated with year round harvest how do you control wolves? I also run hounds for lion and bear, MT., ID., and many other states have had several accounts of hounds being slaughtered by wolves and left. Unable to run dogs to control lion and bear #s and add wolves you have a very bad situation for all prey species.

 

[KMD]

First off, I believe that predators play an important role in the ecosystem.

However, I believe that wolf re-introduction to Yellowstone has morphed into a greater plot to negatively affect hunters, by a collective of anti-hunting, animal rights nutballs.

These nutballs spread their emotionally rooted, un-scientifically based propaganda by whatever means necessary. Their money raising tactics are targeted to exploit the compassion of good hearted, yet ignorant general public, to further fund their own, more radical agenda. And they use those funds to tie up State agencies in the courtroom, while the wolves run amok on unsuspecting game animals and livestock...

Whether or not that was the plan from the beginning matters not, the fact of the matter is that the spread of wolves is a veiled assault on the pursuit of hunting! IMHO, choosing to ignore that fact, and focusing solely on the "science" of predator/prey relationships, will wind up screwing us worse than "they" already have.

We can argue carrying capacity, fawn survival, overall herd health, etc. 'til we're blue in the teeth. Meanwhile, the wolves are spreading and exploiting game animals who've not yet had a chance to re-adapt to a most efficient and INTRODUCED, predatory pressure. Whether wolves used to be there, don't matter either. Fact is, resident game animal populations have evolved in the absence of wolves for many, many generations. That translates into a literal "free for all" for the re-introduced and rapidly spreading, wolf.

Sure, Nature might balance itself out without our influence. That is what biology textbooks would lead us to believe. But is that REALLY a bet that we, as hunters, are willing to side with??? C'mon gents... you're smarter than that!!!

The social structure of wolves clearly follow a path of wide dispersal patterns. Its their nature to branch out, expand and re-establish new packs. This is another reason why I feel that wolf re-introduction was part of a larger agenda. NO FRIGGIN WAY were they gonna stay in Yellwostone. IMHO, not having a rock solid containment strategy in place to manage dispersal is proof of the antis weaving their web of deceit...

I don't doubt that these nutballs have infiltrated our G&F agencies either, to muddy the waters of sound game management. When emotional rhetoric over-rides sound decision making based on scientific and historical data, thats a hint to the larger battle we, as hunters, face.

Coming off like a doomsdayer doesn't sit well with me. But, as has been stated above, I feel the problem ain't about wolf management.

Pick a side, gents...the one that us hunters are on!!!

 

[Beendare]

http://rmefblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/get-facts.html

Mtnhunters link from above is a redirect to this link- full of factual info or us "Tin Hatters"...i'm assuming that comment is directed at me among others.

I suppose i might have a different perspective if i lived in Montana vs Ca. I'm on the front lines of the animal rights wars and the whole politics of this stuff. If you don't understand that laws and policy are based on prescidents- you might want to look at how the sillyness in Ca or rights orgs in NYC has dictated to states like Ca, Oregon, Washington and others.

The animal rights folks understand the war; its a long chip away/pick your battles type war that takes years to work itself out. Lead ammo is the latest scare- kiss your cheap ammo goodbye in a few years- its already being implemented in Ca and in a few years even states like montana will have pressure put on them.
Look at the reduced or eliminated moose tags in Minn and Montana- wolves among other issues are keeping them at too low pop levels for "Sport hunting".

If you don't think this boils down to a battle vs animal rights and sport hunting- you just don't get it. I hear the mountain states guys saying- it can't happen here.....

When it finally does get down to the few remaining strongholds of hunting...the Ca hunters and many other contingents will be long gone to give the strongholds any support. I'm hoping we can all band together to stop it...but how many right now are putting their money where their mouth is with orgs like SCI that are battling in court every week for hunters rights?

 

[JeremiahH]

So with this many views and replies, it would be in vain without taking note of ourselves and how we can help. If you haven't gotten involved you need to. Last year legislation went to the desk of Idahos governor to use fish and game dollars to pay restitution for livestock loss in Idaho. I was blue in the face writing my public comment letter to him about how irrational that was. And that it should be paid by state tax since the state owns the wolves not just the sportsmen, that already pay money to manage and hunt. I said much more but it was constructive and thought out. The more people that feel the pinch the better. If I was a non hunter and knew I was paying for wolf predation I might be more supportive of sportsmen and management, like the 23 wolves F&G killed in the lolo zone earlier this year. My point is, I would never have known about the legislation or timeline for public comments without BCHA.
That legislation never passed but I believe some variation of it may have, though I'm not certain.
cheers

 

[Alabama]

Tapeworm virus - A tapeworm is not a virus. And, tapeworms have always been extremely common before the introduction of the wolves. Almost any carnivore can carry tapeworms including foxes, coyotes, and lions. It's very normal for elk and moose to have tapeworm cysts in their organs and doesn't kill them. They pose no threat to humans unless you like eating wolf sh!t.

I agree (obviously) that a tapeworm is not a virus, but you dismissed this issue a little too quickly.

"A new area of wolf-related science that is just now surfacing is the threat of the Echinococcus granulosus tapeworm – which close to 70-percent of all wolves tested in the Northern Rockies now carry – and spread widely during their long ranging hunts. Every pile of scat left by these wolves could deposit thousands of the tapeworm eggs, which can result in cystic hydatid disease in elk, moose, deer, livestock – and even humans. The eggs of this parasite can cause health and life threatening cysts on the lungs, the liver and on the brain. Once contracted, detection of hydatid disease could take years. Having the cysts surgically removed presents a new danger. They are filled with a cloudy liquid, filled with tiny tapeworm heads, and should one burst, either during surgery or on its own, leads to a severe allergic reaction, cause anaphylatic shock – and possibly death. When a cyst does burst, it can spawn the growth of multiple new cysts, making surgery a tricky procedure.

As wolf numbers continue to grow in the Northern Rockies, so will the chances of contracting the disease. It already has many outdoor oriented people afraid to enjoy harvesting and eating wild berries and mushrooms, which could be covered with microscopic tapeworm eggs. Several cases in humans have now been reported, and a growing number of hunters are finding the cysts on the lungs and livers of elk, deer and moose harvested."

 

[Alabama]

http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2012...hern-rockies-before-canadian-wolf-transplant/

This article details the distribution of the 5 sub species of gray wolves found in North America. The wolves that were introduced into the lower 48 did not historically live here, thus making them non-native. Some would consider them an "invasive species".

And for those who would like to read on the Hydatid disease that wolves are spreading here is a good article with other articles linked at the bottom of the page.

http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010...-have-thousands-of-hydatid-disease-tapeworms/

Good post OR Archer.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Pretty narrow minded. 9 pages of comments and not one person suggesting the solution of increasing the carrying capacity of the area for the herd. Ya know, like don't bulldoze, pave and turn all your wilderness into strip malls, parking lots and Wal-Marts?

You can't support more predators of any kind, because there ain't any wilderness left. Work on the root cause of the problem. Everyone here is fired up about the symptoms.

You're right we should start stacking people in high rises and stop home ownership and new homes. You can slow ubran sprawl, but you can not stop it. Its a fact that I nor anyone that enjoys being off the payment wants to admit, but never the less its the truth. There for focus on what we can control, things like increasing CC, via habitat/water enhancements.

 

[MAC2]

tipsntail research what has happened north eastern Minnesota deer and moose population and this is your desire ?

 

[stephen b]

Here you go- this is par for the course for how things go here in Oregon. And it is probably just getting started.

http://m.gillettenewsrecord.com/ap/...81d-bccf-582b-8888-7791507251f2.html?mode=jqm

http://earthfix.opb.org/land/article/conservation-group-files-lawsuit-against-timber-sa/

This is why OP's comment/ opinion and link that was posted in the first post of this thread with the title- " this will be unpopular i am sure" ( which I am sure he was meaning unpopular on Rokslide) - is not popular at all to hunters here in Oregon. This is not going to be a good thing for Oregon hunters. But, then again, most of the situations that happen here, whether it is our state government, ODFW, general public, etc. are not real favorable to ungulates or 2 legged predators. Because we live in a state that is a liberal quagmire.