Thinking of going floorless

[optimusprime]

Hey all. I have been throwing around the idea of switching to a floorless shelter. The Kifaru Paratarp and Supertarp have piqued my interest. -During heavy rain conditions, do you find the ground getting wet and essentially creating a river inside the shelter? If so, do you use a ground pad?
-Do you use just a sleeping bag or some sort of bivy sack for extra protection?
-Do you ever find yourself getting wet from rain blowing in from the opening and if so, what do you do to remedy this situation?

 

[LWkyhunter]

Tagged interested also

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[trslabaugh]

You guys should check out Snyder's podcast (Kifarucast) about this exact topic. He answered A LOT of my questions on the subject.

I haven't given it a shot yet, but might this fall. As for the water, treat it same as a tent. Set it up on an area that isn't a low spot and you should be okay. Depending on the size of the tarp, you should be able to stake it closer to the ground to limit the amount of "splash" that comes under the side of the tarp.

I've been looking at getting a nest to put under my tarp, in case the bugs are bad. Also just considering a single man Ultralight tent and using the tarp as a porch.

I'm sure some of the veteran floorless guys will chime in with some experience in this...

 

[SoCalBoyDontKnow]

You guys should check out Snyder's podcast (Kifarucast) about this exact topic. He answered A LOT of my questions on the subject.

I haven't given it a shot yet, but might this fall. As for the water, treat it same as a tent. Set it up on an area that isn't a low spot and you should be okay. Depending on the size of the tarp, you should be able to stake it closer to the ground to limit the amount of "splash" that comes under the side of the tarp.

I've been looking at getting a nest to put under my tarp, in case the bugs are bad. Also just considering a single man Ultralight tent and using the tarp as a porch.

I'm sure some of the veteran floorless guys will chime in with some experience in this...

Can you link the podcast episode. Thank you.

 

[trslabaugh]

Can you link the podcast episode. Thank you.

http://kifaru.net/floorless-shelter-qa/

 

[Keats620]

Love floorless shelters.

 

[jhm2023]

Floorless is the way to go. Lots of room and minimal weight compared to a typical tent. As far as having water flow through your tent during heavy rain, well setting your tent in a place that looks like it would cause a flow or pooling is just a no no even with a floor. I always use some sort of lightweight ground cloth/tarp and a sleeping pad. The bivy isn't needed if you pitch the tent or tarp properly. The biggest issue will be condensation but again site selection is a huge factor, as is venting. I used a tipi for several years then switched back to a normal tent with bathtub floor. I immediately sold it and purchased another tipi after the first hunt with it because I missed having a floorless shelter. It isn't for everyone, but the large amount of space, ability to run a wood stove, and spilling something or entering with wet muddy gear and boots not being an issue far outweighs the minor cons for me.

 

[Kevin Dill]

DON'T DO IT. There is considerable risk you'll find it so surprisingly enjoyable that you'll get hooked. This can lead to more and better gear, along with hunt-seeking behaviors. Your wife or GF will pick up your distracted look and evasive answers to questions about what's going on.

DON'T DO IT!

 

[Jimbob]

I have been using a floorless tipi for years and not once have I had water flow under it. I use a piece of Tyvek under my pad and that's it. I love the floor space to weight ratio and enjoy being right on the ground. For bugs, I just sewed 6" of netting to the bottom and now I don't need a nest. I love everything about floorless.

 

[AK Troutbum]

DON'T DO IT. There is considerable risk you'll find it so surprisingly enjoyable that you'll get hooked. This can lead to more and better gear, along with hunt-seeking behaviors. Your wife or GF will pick up your distracted look and evasive answers to questions about what's going on.

DON'T DO IT!

^^^^What he said. It could quite possibly be the worst mistake of your life!


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[805Bowhunter]

It took me a while to make the jump but was so happy when I did. I got the Supertarp and have been very happy. I havent had it in any crazy storms but certainly in some wet conditions and it is far easier to manage than I thought. My wife and I hunt together and I was concerned that we would be limited on our space but there is plenty. Two big dudes, maybe not so much but I dont mind being close to the wife. I very much now prefer the tarp to the tent in most situations. Much lighter too.

 

[jhm2023]

It took me a while to make the jump but was so happy when I did. I got the Supertarp and have been very happy. I havent had it in any crazy storms but certainly in some wet conditions and it is far easier to manage than I thought. My wife and I hunt together and I was concerned that we would be limited on our space but there is plenty. Two big dudes, maybe not so much but I dont mind being close to the wife. I very much now prefer the tarp to the tent in most situations. Much lighter too.

I hunt with my wife all the time and one of the benefits of our floorless tipi is the all the room for activities when you're weathered in. Watch the woodstove though, I melted a pair of pants once. In all seriousness though it is really nice to sprawl all of your stuff out to dry by the stove and have room to move about when you're stuck in the tent for long periods of time.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Not to hijack your thread but I will toss in a notion here.

How much weight does floorless really save? I agree there are other benefits but is weight saving really one of them?

A quick note, I prefer to camp without a tent. Tarp, bivy or cowboy camp. Hunting or hiking I will take no tent every time except when there are evil bugs or bad weather to contend with.

So...Lots of variables, so let’s consider 2 hunters and no stove and look at a few tent options at different weights and price points:

Rei quarter dome 2 = 40oz or 20 per person with 2 hunters
Tarptent StratoSpire 2 = 44oz or 22 per person
Zpacks duplex = 24oz with stakes and Guylines so 11oz per person

Then look at a few tarps:

SO DST = 24oz with stakes and lines so 12 per person
Kifaru supertarp = 36oz so 18 per person
Zpacks 8.5x10 = 12oz with stakes and lines so 6 each

But most people use other items in addition the tarp. Add a ground cloth for 4-10oz per person and maybe a bivy for 6-16oz per person and you are looking at 16oz per person at the lowest end with all Dyneema / ultralight stuff or up to 44oz for pretty robust gear. Maybe you could go to 10oz with half a dyneema tarp and a 4oz ground cloth (dyneema or polycro)

Granted, the examples above is very simple and the math changes with more less hunters and if you add a stove or go with a tipi or more complex floorless rig. However, I have been upgrading some gear lately with a focus weight reduction and after looking at some options, I can’t convince myself that I will lose a ton of pack weight by going floorless.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Not argumentative in the least, but for myself, floorless was never about weight savings. It was about square footage (under cover), stove usage, stand-up height (I use a full tipi), 100% inside cooking, and the ability to access the shelter with boots on anytime. I would agree that floorless isn't automatically the answer for the guy who wants absolute minimalist weight, even though it intuitively seems that would be the case.

 

[karltime]

Question for you guys who are floorless, I'm looking at Luxe Hiking Gear (gotta go cheap) tipi's and the LBO with SO. I do most of my hunting during archery season in hotter weather. Are they much hotter than tents? Is there a benefit to tipi's in hot weather that I wouldn't get with tents?

 

[Cant hit em]

Question for you guys who are floorless, I'm looking at Luxe Hiking Gear (gotta go cheap) tipi's and the LBO with SO. I do most of my hunting during archery season in hotter weather. Are they much hotter than tents? Is there a benefit to tipi's in hot weather that I wouldn't get with tents?

If you pitch them up off the ground with cordage and line locks 2-3” you get a great breeze and its no hotter than any other tent plus alleviates a lot of condensation . If your looking for a cheap floorless to see if you’ll like it or not , try the Mountainsmith LT for a season then upgrade if you like it.

 

[Jimbob]

Not to hijack your thread but I will toss in a notion here.

How much weight does floorless really save? I agree there are other benefits but is weight saving really one of them?

A quick note, I prefer to camp without a tent. Tarp, bivy or cowboy camp. Hunting or hiking I will take no tent every time except when there are evil bugs or bad weather to contend with.

So...Lots of variables, so let’s consider 2 hunters and no stove and look at a few tent options at different weights and price points:

Rei quarter dome 2 = 40oz or 20 per person with 2 hunters
Tarptent StratoSpire 2 = 44oz or 22 per person
Zpacks duplex = 24oz with stakes and Guylines so 11oz per person

Then look at a few tarps:

SO DST = 24oz with stakes and lines so 12 per person
Kifaru supertarp = 36oz so 18 per person
Zpacks 8.5x10 = 12oz with stakes and lines so 6 each

But most people use other items in addition the tarp. Add a ground cloth for 4-10oz per person and maybe a bivy for 6-16oz per person and you are looking at 16oz per person at the lowest end with all Dyneema / ultralight stuff or up to 44oz for pretty robust gear. Maybe you could go to 10oz with half a dyneema tarp and a 4oz ground cloth (dyneema or polycro)

Granted, the examples above is very simple and the math changes with more less hunters and if you add a stove or go with a tipi or more complex floorless rig. However, I have been upgrading some gear lately with a focus weight reduction and after looking at some options, I can’t convince myself that I will lose a ton of pack weight by going floorless.

You need to compare apples to apples, that means floor area needs to be factored into the equation. A tiny two man tent is nothing like a supertarp.

It is really cool that you can get ultra lightweight tents but if you go floor less you can get that same ultra lightweight at a bigger size. It's not just how low you can get the ounces its how BIG you can get the shelter at those low ounces.

 

[Desk Jockey]

You need to compare apples to apples, that means floor area needs to be factored into the equation. A tiny two man tent is nothing like a supertarp.

It is really cool that you can get ultra lightweight tents but if you go floor less you can get that same ultra lightweight at a bigger size. It's not just how low you can get the ounces its how BIG you can get the shelter at those low ounces.

Fair point. I agree pound for pound you get more sq ft for floor less than a tent and one of the reasons I actually prefer tarp camping in anything less than heavy rain / bugs is I can spread out more. My DST with two guys is far more spacious than my 3 man tent. I will concede that. However, to really be apples to apples I would have to add a ground sheet and some kind of bug net or a nest, which puts me at or above the tent in terms of weight.

 

[Jimbob]

Fair point. I agree pound for pound you get more sq ft for floor less than a tent and one of the reasons I actually prefer tarp camping in anything less than heavy rain / bugs is I can spread out more. My DST with two guys is far more spacious than my 3 man tent. I will concede that. However, to really be apples to apples I would have to add a ground sheet and some kind of bug net or a nest, which puts me at or above the tent in terms of weight.

Yes once we add a bug net then it just becomes a tent with a cool shape and most weight savings are gone.

 

[whitingja]

Yes once we add a bug net then it just becomes a tent with a cool shape and most weight savings are gone.

I honestly think the biggest advantage is the ability to have muddy/wet boots and the occasional emergency pee break in the tent when your too tired to get up, and have a stove for warmth and heat. The rest is just preference. If I am going in and not wanting to take the time for a stove and finding wood, I'l take my hilliberg.