There is no animal that is tougher than any other.

[hereinaz]

So some agreement seems sheep, lions and antelopes are easier.

But, pigs/boars, squirrels, groundhogs and coons are harder.

I specifically tried to exclude African game, I have no doubt some are harder.

 

[huntnful]

I’ve stoned several bucks with vital shots from a 28 Nosler and 180-195 Berger. Then I’ve also had a coyote run damn near 100 yards with the same bullet and a 4” hole through him it seems.

I think the “toughness” more comes into play when the shot isn’t a good one. Then some animals are more tough . A buck will go lay down 20 yards away. An elk might walk/run 2 miles lol

This coyote was a 22 creed at 200 yards. 3” hole through it. Made it about 75 yards. I’ve only had ONE double lunged buck go that far. Coyotes do it all the time. Wild haha.

 

[TheYukiYama]

Mountain lions give up the ghost pretty quick In my experience. Seen quite a few get an Arrow behind the shoulder and it’s like instant death. Sheep die really easy.

Just a personal anecdote but both lions I've shot died extremely quickly..

 

[KenLee]

Hahahaha, I am dying picturing a 300 pound coon.

I had to swim into the river to help a 5 month old pup drown/kill a 25 pound boar coon when I was a kid. Seemed like he was 300 pounds. The grown Walker hounds already had enough and went to the bank. Lil Plott bit** wouldn't give up.

 

[TheYukiYama]

Hypothesis: I don’t believe that there are tough/wimpy animals in North America that can’t be explained by blood volume.

I swear when I hit a grouse with a single pellet, they crumple and are dead on impact or at least stay where they land. However, it's not uncommon to hit a pheasant and watch them fly hundreds of yards. Or if they do fall and hit the ground, they hit the ground running. Blood volume may be a variable, but there is certainly more to it than just that.

 

[RWT]

Nilgai are difficult I believe due to lung size. They also have a thick shield similar to a hog and I have watch them not miss a step while blowing through a 5 strand barbwire fence.

I shot one at 150 yards. 300SARUM model 7 20”. Didn’t recover him that evening. Found the next morning ran about 100 yards.

 

[TaperPin]

I‘m always a fan of the 243 as a plinker/trainer/loaner and we’ve taken plenty of deer and antelope to 450 yards with a 100 Nosler Partition - it usually works well enough, except for a cow elk double lunged off a haystack that ran 300-400 yards. Same bullet same velocity as a number of the antelope and mulies, but a much different result. In my book that makes an elk tougher to kill - at least I don’t know how to correlate blood volume to deer volume to distance ran.

 

[Maxhunter]

So will my 30-06 with a 180g accubond at 2675fps kill an aoudad within 300yds?

Yes no problem. I’ve shot two with my 6.5PRC and they dropped in their tracks. One was 350yds and the other 190yds.

 

[Maxhunter]

One of the tough ones is mountain goats imo. Easiest is deer and sheep. Elk are tough but die easily if you hit them in the right spot.

 

[Blockcaver]

Mountain goats are tougher than the other 30 some species I’ve arrowed.

 

[Thegman]

Mostly that they don’t cut and run at the first impact, so it’s pretty easy to shoot them multiple times.
Generally die as quick as anything else, they just do it in sight.

One animal may not be "tougher" than another, given the same amount of vitals disruption, but the reaction after the shot can be a lot different. In general, IME, moose might run a bit, but quickly bed down. Bears run, and run, and...

 

[rookieforever33]

I blew out a coyotes spine at the midsection and it dragged its rear end 50 yards until I got another shot into it. Blood in the snow everywhere.
Another I shot a 223 through its chest and after it dropped and was still for about 20 seconds it got up and ran 50 yards before dropping again. Judging from the blood coming out its miuth its lungs had to be soup.
Every other one I shot went down fighting. They are tough little buggers

 

[HandgunHTR]

One animal may not be "tougher" than another, given the same amount of vitals disruption, but the reaction after the shot can be a lot different. In general, IME, moose might run a bit, but quickly bed down. Bears run, and run, and...

That is interesting. And it also helps to understand why these "debates" on forum usually turn to crap.
The reason I say that is because of the 20+ black bear kills I have been a part of (11 killed by me), I have only seen one that ran and ran. It was shot with a bow and the shooter shot it like he would a whitetail, so it was a bit too far forward. That bear went over 3/4 of a mile before we were able to get another shot in it.
Now, that being said, only 6 of those bears were "Western", and 4 of those were killed over bait. The other two were dog hunts, so I don't have any experience shooting them in meadows or in clear cuts at distance.

All this is to say, that everyone's experiences are different and our behaviors and choices are molded by those experiences. I don't discount what Thegman posted at all, it is just different from my own experiences.

And. so as to stay on the OPs topic, I will add that pound-for-pound, blackbuck are some of the toughest motherlovers walking. If you don't take out the heart or spine with the first shot, those little tanks are going to stay on their feet for a while. Fortunately, they like open spaces, so getting a follow-up shot is relatively easy, but they are a small target with a high will to live.

 

[Thegman]

That is interesting. And it also helps to understand why these "debates" on forum usually turn to crap.
The reason I say that is because of the 20+ black bear kills I have been a part of (11 killed by me), I have only seen one that ran and ran. It was shot with a bow and the shooter shot it like he would a whitetail, so it was a bit too far forward. That bear went over 3/4 of a mile before we were able to get another shot in it.
Now, that being said, only 6 of those bears were "Western", and 4 of those were killed over bait. The other two were dog hunts, so I don't have any experience shooting them in meadows or in clear cuts at distance.

All this is to say, that everyone's experiences are different and our behaviors and choices are molded by those experiences. I don't discount what Thegman posted at all, it is just different from my own experiences.

And. so as to stay on the OPs topic, I will add that pound-for-pound, blackbuck are some of the toughest motherlovers walking. If you don't take out the heart or spine with the first shot, those little tanks are going to stay on their feet for a while. Fortunately, they like open spaces, so getting a follow-up shot is relatively easy, but they are a small target with a high will to live.

No debate here. What you described is pretty much what I meant. Bears are not at all hard to kill, very quickly, but hit a little poorly and you got a 3/4 of a mile tracking job before you caught up to it, BTDT! A moose, IME, might have gone less than 100 yards and bedded down with the same kind of vitals disruption (not the same shot placement).

 

[Beendare]

@hereinaz, Respectfully I think the easy to kill by blood volume....or whatever the theory you are proposing is a big no.

Lots of blood in these Aussie Buff.....and I saw a wounded Buff plow one of our assistant guides like a skid steer. The guy was lucky to live through it.

Thankfully, this one went right down.

 

[hereinaz]

@hereinaz, Respectfully I think the easy to kill by blood volume....or whatever the theory you are proposing is a big no.

Lots of blood in these Aussie Buff.....and I saw a wounded Buff plow one of our assistant guides like a skid steer. The guy was lucky to live through it.

Thankfully, this one went right down.
View attachment 825322

By volume, I’d say one of those would be harder to kill. And, if they were mad I could see it being every bit as dangerous.

This thread has added another possible variable to my hypothesis. Still hard to nail down stuff like this, but I wonder if the level of adrenaline and testosterone in the animal keeps it going longer.

All the killer coons, boars, pigs, brown bears, water buffalo and such seem to have more naturally “raging aggression”.

The “softer” to kill animals don’t have the reputation for aggression.

And, it is consistent with stories of meth induced soldier and criminals.

 

[The Guide]

By volume, I’d say one of those would be harder to kill. And, if they were mad I could see it being every bit as dangerous.

This thread has added another possible variable to my hypothesis. Still hard to nail down stuff like this, but I wonder if the level of adrenaline and testosterone in the animal keeps it going longer.

All the killer coons, boars, pigs, brown bears, water buffalo and such seem to have more naturally “raging aggression”.

The “softer” to kill animals don’t have the reputation for aggression.

And, it is consistent with stories of meth induced soldier and criminals.

I would suggest that any animal that is naturally aggressive (without being injured by being shot) or known to attack generally is going to be harder to kill. Most likely due to adrenalin and mindset with a lack of fear. Most prey species die pretty easily. There is always a few that are outside of the norms though and that skews the results and gives us stories to tell around the fires of the internet.

Jay

 

[TheYukiYama]

By volume, I’d say one of those would be harder to kill. And, if they were mad I could see it being every bit as dangerous.

This thread has added another possible variable to my hypothesis. Still hard to nail down stuff like this, but I wonder if the level of adrenaline and testosterone in the animal keeps it going longer.

All the killer coons, boars, pigs, brown bears, water buffalo and such seem to have more naturally “raging aggression”.

The “softer” to kill animals don’t have the reputation for aggression.

And, it is consistent with stories of meth induced soldier and criminals.

Another variable, outside of species of size, imo would be the current state of the animal.
If it's later in the season and the animal is worn out, it dies easier.
If the animal is aware of your presence and theres a loud rifle, it runs farther and takes more than an arrowed animal that was never aware you were there.
When I've shot deer that were jumped and already on the run, they tend to go farther than when I shoot them without their knowledge that I am there, regardless of shot placement.
And bone is definitely thicker on some animals than others, which is why i think it isn't only 'blood volume'. I've seen bull elk with multiple broad heads stuck in shoulder blades, where I've seen them go right through white tail.

 

[RockAndSage]

The tone of this thread is great - awesome to see the exchanges be considerate ideas and observation. Lots of food for thought.

 

[Mojave]

I don't have a log of how many big game animals. Around a 350-400 hundred, guess would be about 10 pronghorn, a few mule deer, quite a few European deer and hogs, and 22 African animals from steenbok to zebras and about 300 great grey kangaroos.

CNS kills, disrupt major blood flow kills, liver kills after a while.

Problem is not finding something that ran 200 plus yards away in heavy cover.

Sometimes killing an animal in heavy cover (last year it was waist high ferns) is problematic.

I want on the spot kills everytime. But I don't have a 100% methodology on doing that in hunting scenarios.

Losing an animal sucks, and the joy of an instant death and drop is amazing. I hope I can do better at pulling it off, and it sucks when it doesn't happen.