There is no animal that is tougher than any other.

[JGRaider]

I hear you HandgunHTR. I'm sure we both have numerous examples of shooting the same type animal (wt deer for example) wth the exact same rifle, bullet, load, etc in pretty much the exact same POI, and have them react a little differently (once again, not CNS). That's just the way it is, and why I rarely get involved in this small cartridge vs big cartridge horseschitttt.

 

[LookinforDirt]

It’s funny you would say that, I’ve always thought that pronghorn die easy. But having said that, I’ve seen more “ metal of honor” winner pronghorn bucks than any other species. A couple of years ago I watched a buddy shoot a pronghorn buck at 20 yards with a 7mm rem mag with 140 partitions. Shot was in the crease and that buck made a 400
Yard death run. Blood covered that critter by the time he came to a stop. I think he did forget to scribe “wallop” on the side of that nosler though, that had to be the issue.

Within the species it seems some animals just have a stronger will to live than others. More anecdote I’ve shot several whitetail that dropped in their tracks or went 20-30 yards and dropped. I shot a cruising buck a couple years ago, 2 well placed quartering away double lung shots at 35 yards, both within 2-3 inches of each other and both exited. First shot I couldn’t even tell he’d been hit. Second shot he slightly changed his gait for a brief second. I was going to put a third in him but he was walking directly away from me at that point. So I watched him walk hoping he’d present a better shot. He walked 70 yards and the only sign he’d been hit was he was walking slower with his head up (vs his nose to the ground rut paced doe pursuit). He got to a fence and stopped. I saw blood spew out and he swayed a little. I thought “that’s it, he’s dropping”. Instead, after about 5-6 seconds, he jumped the fence and walked another 95 yards. Finally he stopped, did a couple falling down circles, and died. That deer just did not want to quit.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Prairie Dogs with a 55 grn BlitzKing explode…I think they die easily.

 

[5MilesBack]

5) A CNS shot has the same effect on all animals

When I first started reading your post, this is ultimately what I thought of. But anything less than that, and it's a crap shoot from my experience. I shot a cow elk one time that went about 1/4 mile before I found her slumped over a blow down. When I cut her open, there was no heart......just small chunks and soup. Yet I've hit others similarly that were down within 30 yards.

 

[robertpaulsen]

Man I would wager a guess that anybody that’s spent a significant anount of time hunting NA wild sheep wouldn’t agree that they are significantly “softer” than all other big game animals.

Anecdotally.. I’ve seen them shot with everything from a 6mm to 338s, from up the ass facing away to through the skull, and they just seem very eager to die, quickly.

They aren’t much smaller than mule deer or mountain goats but those 2 species always seem to stay on their feet longer or sometimes require a follow up shot too.


To me this would be kind of like saying every man in America can handle a right cross to the jaw exactly the same….

Agree 100%

 

[Hoghead]

I think it is the individual animals' will. I have caught 300-pound boars with my dogs that really didn't fight them too hard. Last weekend, I caught a 175-pound boar that was kicking there, but.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[RockAndSage]

2) Toughness by species depends on blood volume.

^^^ This is a pretty interesting idea. Don't have anything to offer either way, but it's intriguing.

In general, I'm inclined to agree with you across the board, but do wonder if there might be a couple of exceptions.

On the broader issue of animal "toughness", I'd love to hear more about African game. I've heard guys who have safari experience say things about African animals just being tougher, including one first-hand anecdote of a baboon soaking up 4 rounds of .300 WM and still flinging $h*t. Heard stories of elephants taking brain shots that don't completely take them out, and needing another. Cape buffalo soaking up 5 rounds of .577 NE and still coming. Stuff like that.

How much of all that is confirmation bias? Or hyped stories validating some identity issue about hunting the toughest game, or needing the biggest gun? How much is just true? I'm open minded either way, but would love to hear more first-hand accounts out of Africa, or some of the Australian water-buffalo hunters.

 

[Lou270]

Seems to me a big boar wild hog with a 1 1/8" thick shield is tougher than any deer species. I've seen hogs that when you roll them over it was like they had a turtle shell with that shield.

The Water Buffalo in Australia are amazingly tough critters with 1 1/4" thick over lapping ribs....and there's about 8" of hide and muscle to penetrate before you even reach those ribs.

I think the softest critter I've seen and easy to kill are Caribou- those go right down and there is plenty of blood in them. A buddy swears the best spot to shoot them is in the stomach....as then their esophagus gets stuffed with green moss and they choke to death....though I have never tried it.

I agree with wild boar. 243 on deer, no problem. 24 cal works on boar as well so not saying they don’t work but I have had more issues recovering them with small cals and even good shot placement. I simply think they are harder on bullets and their makeup distribute/dissipate energy more so the shocking (ie fragmenting) effect of impact velocity that small cals rely on is less effective. This has nothing to do with autopsying animals and everything to do with ease of recovery (ie run a long way with no blood) or weird things like pig gets up and runs off after being still for a while. We can be righteous and say shot placement was bad, but it simply has happened way more with pigs shot with 22/24 cals than say 270/7mm and up. Not seen this at all on deer - either big bodied whitetails or muledeer though all deer I have seen shot with 24 and under has been under about 250

Lou

 

[VernAK]

Animals have varying degrees of tenacity for life. While a whitetail buck may kick and jump in an attempt to get away, he may expire in the same amount of time as a caribou that just stands there until he drops over.

The most tenacious of life critters that I've encountered are mountain goats and grizzly bears.

 

[JFK]

I’d say pigs have the potential to be tougher than other NA game. Some of their “toughness” is probably due to people making traditional behind the shoulder shots and missing heart/lungs due to their vitals being crammed up front and low. Still, I’ve seen some pretty remarkable stuff with them. One in particular that I shot while in a fight with another boar, so he was pretty amped up. First shot got him in the heart, second one got him in the liver as he stated to run. Third shot was while he was at a full run and basically took his front leg off at the knee, but he continued to run. He died but made it about 200 yards and came to rest about 20 feet from the thick brush he was heading for. Most of them die just the same as other stuff though.

 

[KenLee]

Over the years I’ve seen some possums take considerable damage from everything from a . 22 to a 12 gauge slug and keep going.

All the grease seals em up

 

[KenLee]

Hogs are tough but pound for pound imho nothing is tougher than a squirel.

If squirrels were 300 pounds they would be very hard to kill. Lol

300 pound coons would rule the world. Mean a** rascals.

 

[TreeWalking]

Stand 50 feet from a whitetail and shoot through both lungs. Or, through the heart. The deer may go 100 yards likely going the other way from you for 10 seconds then stumbles or locks up before tips over to never get back up. Repeat nine more times. Take notes.

Do the same with a Cape buffalo. I advise you go a bit larger on your bullet diameter compared to your deer test.

The Cape buffalo reaction may inspire you to rethink your theory. Good luck thinking you will spine or brain the buff 10 times out of 10.

Lung capacity, blood volume and aggressive nature of the animal comes into play.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Hogs are tough but pound for pound imho nothing is tougher than a squirel.

If squirrels were 300 pounds they would be very hard to kill. Lol

Groundhogs are little tanks with fur.

I've had several with terrible wounds try to bite me.