The Welfare Cattle Empire That Controls Your Public Lands: article

[jkoehle1]

I agree with you that a bid process is the best way to determine market value. I see two big issues with this.
First there would be no competition on many of the public allotments. When the homesteaders arrived, they laid claim to all the water, when the homestead act was discontinued the land that was unclaimed became BLM. Many public allotments need to have access to the water on private land to be viable. Even if there is enough water on the public, you still need access to a corral and good luck getting the government approval for even a set of portable corrals. You could lose half the grazing season waiting for the approval. Forget about a set of permeate corrals You could be waiting years before this went through NEPA and the appeals appeals. Even if you do have corrals on the public, you do not want them. Rustling is still a thing on the accessable allotments where you are miles from anything. Not common but people will still load up a trailer load of cattle and take them east of the Missouri where you don't need brand inspections to sell them. A set of corrells just makes it easy for them. There would be no compeitive bidding on many allotments. You could remidy this with a minimum bid, but why set up a bidding process that would be sure to cost the goverment a bunch of money to administer and esentualy still have the same systom we have now.
The second reason I dislike a bidding systom is on allotments where there would be compition in the bidding, the winner would likely be the opporater that is going to skimp on maintaining the allotmernt and when it was getting close to the end of the lease, they would ride that allotmemt like the rented mule it is. The goverment simply does not have the man power or money to ensure that the allotment is treated well and even if they do try to enforce the rule on a bad opporator. by the time it goes through the appeals process the lease is up and the bad opporator is long gone.Change to a bidding systom and you change the permit from something you own to something you rent. People alway treat what they own better than what they rent. There is a reason range on public has been improving since the time we changed from the tragidy of the commons to the systom we have today where the opportors own the permit. Change to a bidding systom and all the incentive is to get as much out of the allotment as quickly as possable instead of haveing something for future generations. A bid syestom would be a bad deal for the health of puclic range.

What would your solution be?

Perhaps blm AUM fees should be at least 1/3rd of the average state land thats also being leased?

 

[cuerro viejo]

Do you have some proof of that happening regularly?

what’s your definition of regularly?

Nobody tracks this nationally, so there’s no solid number. It’s not a category the USDA or FBI breaks out in public Stats.

locally we have a few case every few Years. But many go unreported as they are discovered late or assumed natural especially if it’s single animals.. in western state’s public, most ranchers have a factored in death loss. Backcountry Forensics isn’t exactly a highly coveted school degree.

Replacement cows are $3-4k right now

 

[cuerro viejo]

What would your solution be?

Perhaps blm AUM fees should be at least 1/3rd of the average state land thats also being leased?

Bigger question is what should BLM be doing from a reinvestment standpoint to make those allotments more desirable… water situation is a perfect example

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Most beef in this country comes from the original great American desert, the plains states. And the amount of available water varies by location within those states. For example the average rain fall total for Valentine, Nebraska is around 14 inches but you go 2 hrs west it goes down to under 7. Everything isn't black and white. People have been running cows in the basin and range country since the Spanish owned it.

Texas dominates the U.S. cattle industry with over 12.2 million head, followed by Nebraska and Kansas. While Texas leads in total cattle and beef cow inventories, Nebraska is the national leader for cattle on feed and commercial slaughter.The top 10 cattle-producing states by total cattle and calf inventory:

Texas: ~12.2 million head
Nebraska: ~6.05 million head
Kansas: ~5.95 million head
California: ~5.05 million head
Oklahoma: ~4.6 million head
Missouri: ~3.95 million head
South Dakota: ~3.55 million head
Iowa: ~3.5 million head
Wisconsin: ~3.25 million head
Colorado: ~2.55 million head

 

[Sandhills]

Texas dominates the U.S. cattle industry with over 12.2 million head, followed by Nebraska and Kansas. While Texas leads in total cattle and beef cow inventories, Nebraska is the national leader for cattle on feed and commercial slaughter.The top 10 cattle-producing states by total cattle and calf inventory:

Texas: ~12.2 million head
Nebraska: ~6.05 million head
Kansas: ~5.95 million head
California: ~5.05 million head
Oklahoma: ~4.6 million head
Missouri: ~3.95 million head
South Dakota: ~3.55 million head
Iowa: ~3.5 million head
Wisconsin: ~3.25 million head
Colorado: ~2.55 million head

Kansas, Nebraska and those areas were originally referred to as the Great American Desert.
If you break it down by County, Cherry County, Nebraska is number one producer, Holt County, NE is number two and Elko County, NV is number three. At least from last year's numbers.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Kansas, Nebraska and those areas were originally referred to as the Great American Desert.
If you break it down by County, Cherry County, Nebraska is number one producer, Holt County, NE is number two and Elko County, NV is number three. At least from last year's numbers.

Thank you for clarifying that. I've been across NE too many times to count, and from the car windows on I80, it doesn't feel like desert, certainly not the same as eastern CO, Western KS, or WY, until you get well past Ogallala. That's why I wasn't convinced. It's good to learn new things.

There are some huge operations between North Platte and Ogallala, but I don't recall seeing much between Ogallala and Sydney. That operation on the south side of 80 keeps getting bigger, and at 80mph it seems to stretch for at least a half mile now.

 

[elkliver]

Interesting how much of the perceptions against ranchers are skewed by misinfomration. Not all land is created equal. Comparing BLM grazing permit fees with the rates for grazing on private land is apples and oranges. Are the grazing Permit fees a reasonable amoint? Do they need to be raised? Possibly but its not an obvious answer and is not as good of deal as a lot people think. The first obvious issue is the nature of the grazing land and the number of acres required for 1 animal. Another is the requirements involved when dealing with BLM/Forest Service along with the logistics invlved in order to use the permit. From the outside, looking in, a lot of industries look like a fariy tale opportunity. I know a lot of ranchers that wish they were sitting back raking in a fortune to match the perception. I somewhat agree with Chris in TN... Could it use some adjusting... Possibly,, but don't take the wrecking ball approach...

 

[Coyote Commander]

If you need thousands of acres to graze hundreds of cattle, maybe you shouldn’t be grazing cattle there? Maybe it should be public land just left wild? I’d rather have wild bison and other species there than cows.

In my drive across Montana and Wyoming, one of the things that shocked me the most was how few cattle there were on these huge landscapes. Obviously, there’s not enough water to do a proper rotational grazing program, but it all just looks low effort, highly inefficient, and a waste to me.

My family farm in Virginia has roughly 100 acres of hay, 200 acres of pasture, and the rest is mountain woods (not grazed). It comfortably supports a hundred head of beef cattle in a cow-calf operation. We don’t have to supplement with any other food sources. Most of the beef in this country is coming from places with enough water, not from the great American desert.

Virginia has ~575,000 head of beef cows.

My COUNTY has ~100,000 head.


Just sayin’.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Virginia has ~575,000 head of beef cows.

My COUNTY has ~100,000 head.


Just sayin’.

And you are located where? And how many acres per head (including acres of feed if not grass fed?)? How big is your county? Are these 100,000 cattle on public land? Or private?

Edit: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Quick_Stats/Ag_Overview/stateOverview.php?state=Virginia

Edit - I generally support the market controlling land use and ownership, while allowing for public lands. That tends to make for the most efficient use of land - assuming there are no artificial barriers like cronyism or subsidies.

 

[Afhunter1]

Talking about access and landowner posting lands due to lawsuits this lawsuit closed up a pile of open land in PA. Some places I hunted were posted right after this happened. I think they have changed the laws now where this can't happen again but once it was all posted it stayed that way. Landowner was found partially negligent in a shooting accident.

Jury to decide North Whitehall stray-bullet damages ** Hunter in 2004 accidentally shot a pregnant woman in the head. Jurors’ action this week may affect gun owners and landowners.

A Lehigh County jury this week will decide how much in monetary damages to award to a North Whitehall Township woman who was struck in the head by a hunter’s stray bullet. Casey Burns was 18 and six months pregnant on Nov. 30, 2004,…

www.mcall.com

 

[Sandhills]

Thank you for clarifying that. I've been across NE too many times to count, and from the car windows on I80, it doesn't feel like desert, certainly not the same as eastern CO, Western KS, or WY, until you get well past Ogallala. That's why I wasn't convinced. It's good to learn new things.

There are some huge operations between North Platte and Ogallala, but I don't recall seeing much between Ogallala and Sydney. That operation on the south side of 80 keeps getting bigger, and at 80mph it seems to stretch for at least a half mile now.

Got to think about it from the perspective of a California or Oregon trail pioneer. There was nothing but grass, prickly pear and soap weed from the Missouri River to the Rockies.

 

[Coyote Commander]

And you are located where? And how many acres per head (including acres of feed if not grass fed?)?

Edit: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Quick_Stats/Ag_Overview/stateOverview.php?state=Virginia

You’re missing the point.

The point being “if you need thousands of acres to graze hundreds of cattle, maybe you shouldn’t be grazing cattle”.

We have the land, it’s only good for one thing, and even though it’s not as productive as “back east”, we have a LOT more of it. If you don’t graze it what else are you gonna do with it?

And I’m in western SD. It varies widely but AUMs here vary by specific area and yearly conditions between 20-40 acres. But there’s a LOT of acres available.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

Thank you for clarifying that. I've been across NE too many times to count, and from the car windows on I80, it doesn't feel like desert, certainly not the same as eastern CO, Western KS, or WY, until you get well past Ogallala. That's why I wasn't convinced. It's good to learn new things.

There are some huge operations between North Platte and Ogallala, but I don't recall seeing much between Ogallala and Sydney. That operation on the south side of 80 keeps getting bigger, and at 80mph it seems to stretch for at least a half mile now.

My family owns land in banner and kimbell county. Cattle ranches are everywhere. We lease some of our pastures for grazing and the mule deer hate it when the cows come in, whitetails don’t care.

Every time I find cattle on public in mule deer county I refuse to hunt it, the mule deer imo do not tolerate them nearly as good as whitetails and the numbers are drastically lower compared to when the cows ain’t there.

Wish there was a better option. I almost never hunt Nebraska public anymore because their are more cows then anything else, it’s insane.

 

[KurtR]

My family owns land in banner and kimbell county. Cattle ranches are everywhere. We lease some of our pastures for grazing and the mule deer hate it when the cows come in, whitetails don’t care.

Every time I find cattle on public in mule deer county I refuse to hunt it, the mule deer imo do not tolerate them nearly as good as whitetails and the numbers are drastically lower compared to when the cows ain’t there.

Wish there was a better option. I almost never hunt Nebraska public anymore because their are more cows then anything else, it’s insane.

Those muse be different because our mule deer don’t mind them one bit. Almost every mule deer I have shot cows have been in sight my biggest one the cows were 50 yards to the west of that one

 

[Q_Sertorius]

You’re missing the point.

The point being “if you need thousands of acres to graze hundreds of cattle, maybe you shouldn’t be grazing cattle”.

We have the land, it’s only good for one thing, and even though it’s not as productive as “back east”, we have a LOT more of it. If you don’t graze it what else are you gonna do with it?

And I’m in western SD. It varies widely but AUMs here vary by specific area and yearly conditions between 20-40 acres. But there’s a LOT of acres available.

I don’t think you are missing my point or that I am missing yours.

If someone is running cattle on private land at 20-40 acres per cow, I don’t have any issue with that. My issue is with subsidizing cattle production in places - particularly on public land - where it makes no agricultural or economic sense to raise cattle.

And, frankly, I would be very happy in an economic system with no subsidies at all, basic environmental standards, and tariffs to encourage domestic production. It seems to me that our country was stronger in eras with less regulation.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

Those muse be different because our mule deer don’t mind them one bit. Almost every mule deer I have shot cows have been in sight my biggest one the cows were 50 yards to the west of that one

I’m just basing it off my experience in Wyoming and Nebraska where I’ve hunted and have family and friends who live there and hunt every year. Maybe other places are different.

 

[KurtR]

I’m just basing it off my experience in Wyoming and Nebraska where I’ve hunted and have family and friends who live there and hunt every year. Maybe other places are different.

Mine is just in South and North dakota and Nebraska in the sand hills.

 

[AHayes111]

What would your solution be?

Perhaps blm AUM fees should be at least 1/3rd of the average state land thats also being leased?

There is no easy solution, could rates be increased, in many cases yes. Problem is most of the people bitching about cows are not looking for a solution. Their solution doesn't involve sharing public land with cows. Problem is no grazing can be just as bad as too much grazing. When you do not graze the grass produces less forage and animals do not want to dig through the old unpalatable grass to get at the new growth. Hunters that are advocating for no cattle grazing need to look at what happened when MT FWP removed cattle from the Wall Creek game range in the Madison Range of SW MT.
Bringing back the Bison is a pipe dream that will not work.

 

[AHayes111]

My family owns land in banner and kimbell county. Cattle ranches are everywhere. We lease some of our pastures for grazing and the mule deer hate it when the cows come in, whitetails don’t care.

Every time I find cattle on public in mule deer county I refuse to hunt it, the mule deer imo do not tolerate them nearly as good as whitetails and the numbers are drastically lower compared to when the cows ain’t there.

Wish there was a better option. I almost never hunt Nebraska public anymore because their are more cows then anything else, it’s insane.

Cattle can be a good thing for mule deer. In general cattle grazing promotes the annual forbes and woody browse spices that deer prefer to eat. One of the reason mule deer have struggled in the west and elk have boomed is because better cattle grazing practices have lead to more grass and less browse.

 

[jkoehle1]

Are the grazing Permit fees a reasonable amoint? Do they need to be raised? Possibly

Possibly?

There is no easy solution, could rates be increased, in many cases yes. Problem is most of the people bitching about cows are not looking for a solution.

I dont really think thats fair. Not quite as unfair as 1.69 an AUM though.