The resident short game. Long term consequences?

[tdhanses]

NIMBY is alive and well. (Not In My Backyard).

"We need more hunters to preserve our heritage" *whispers* "Just not here".

"The town needs a new Firehouse" *whispers* "Just don't build it near me, all those pesky sirens"

The list goes on and on of examples of this great irony and debate.

Living in a top whitetail destination I see the pitfalls of NR run amuck with no management. I too am in favor of responsible NR tag allocation. Believe it or not I'm in support of balance. Which I think we've gotten so far away from because of politics and money we've come to this. And yes I understand "balance" is subjective.

See one of the greatest ironies is that many people become NR hunters because of the lack of opportunities in their own state due to NR!

Not sure I agree, I have plenty of opportunities in my state, I just prefer to hunt the west since its what I grew up doing.

 

[Rich M]

So, since you decided today was the "another day", nobody really cares that you walked to school two miles in the snow uphill both ways.

Things were different "back then" just like things are different today. Back then, you went hunting with an OTC tag, as did I. Most hunting today is either costly because of private land, or, public land draw. The resource is either at or below status quo with an influx in demanders. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

In reality, the jokers also put their kids in for prime hunts that you think should only go to you because you think you're entitled, uh, I mean, you "earned" the right.

I didn't realize that little Johnny was such a threat to you...

You make it seem like I hunted out west - I hunted out east. The quota changes will affect me less than most. When the dust settles, will have hunted out west 3 times.

I'm against special youth days cause it gives folks an excuse not to take their kids all the time. Lotsa guys have "their hunts" and then take the kid 1 day a year, then can't figure out why the kid can't shoot or hunt cause they get a youth hunt. There's a lot of guys on here who do it right, but just as many who don't.

Why is it so hard for some folks to get off their asses and take their kids hunting that they need a special season and bag limits?

 

[realunlucky]

I literally have argued for keeping preference out of left over draws. You are literally alienating the few people that are up on regulation and want to see equity in the system. Your greed and selfishness blows me away.

Quoting 7 words out of 450 just reinforces your small view of what is going on. Yes please take you ball and go home.

Resident greed and selfishness and short sightedness is what this thread is about and you've provided a great example.

Not sure how you can guage my selfishness within a context where the rules were changed solely to benefit you.

I agree is more complex problem then a handful of tags. Political power is measured in voices, funding by sheer numbers of investors. Will purposely alienating the majority of known supporters, to benefit a small handful residents be overall more advantageous to resource? No doubt we'll find out over the next decade.

 

[CorbLand]

I agree with a lot of what you say but do not forget a couple things.

1. The animals in the western states are not whitetails. We do not have them coming out of our ears. We literally lost 99% of fawns one year to a freak snow storm in the end of April. We are in the worst years of drought we have ever seen.
2. Western states populations are exploding. I live in a bowl of about 100,000 people and it is expected to double by 2030. We are destroying wintering ground just to keep try and keep up with 10% of the people that want to move here.

While you are sitting there blaming residents for just wanting it all, remember, not all of us are getting things either. I live in Utah. I have 7 points for elk and the likelihood of me getting an elk tag in the next 10 years is very low.

I ran the numbers, for the general season deer unit I hunt the last time as a resident you will be able to draw a tag with 0 points is 2025. By 2027 there will be more people with 1 point than there are tags available and that is when point creep skyrockets. This is not a great unit and that is for the archery tag. The rifle tag is even worse and already takes 2-3 points to be guaranteed and a few draw with 1.

The last time a resident was guaranteed a general season deer tag in Utah was 2012.

I agree with you, we need nonresidents more than we act like we do but don't sit there and think that all residents are just sitting on a pile of tags.

 

[cfdjay]

Not sure I agree, I have plenty of opportunities in my state, I just prefer to hunt the west since its what I grew up doing.

I said many. Not all.


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[Trap]

The problem is the tag draw services, go hunt etc and especially the so called sm influencers. I seen Randy,meat eater, go hunt I could go on forever all doing podcasts on the Montana draw. We have 50 states all with unique and sometimes excellent hunting opportunities. These groups are primping out the same small handful of states for profit. I seen a lot of threads on here for bear hunting almost exclusively on out of staters going to Idaho or Montana. WHY? There is way bigger bears in North Carolina and tons of them, what about Maine and a handful of other states in the south for bear. We don’t have too many hunters we have too many hunters all trying to hunt the same small handful of western states. The resources can’t handle it anymore and our draw systems are busting at the seams. As far as hunter pressure in Idaho our biggest problem is NEW RESIDENT hunters but until we go to a draw system for everything the easy button is to limit non residents. Idaho has been really good to non residents for decades so quit f’ing whining on that one. We have 50 states every hunter in all 50 states has been brainwashed and infected with fomo by tag services and influencers. They have gotten us all into this out of greed. I have lived in Idaho 30 years and before that lived in Montana. Me and my son did diy axis deer in Hawaii, are going to nc and Washington state bear hunting (otc)and Texas for Barbery sheep. I’m going down south to hunt alligators. We are looking at some southern states for whitetail the cost and number of otc tags are ridiculous. I will still hunt Idaho and Montana but we are going to take advantage of all the other opportunities this country offers. Why allow yourself to be manipulated into a draw system where you will spend money for 30 years and probably still not get a tag. I support rmef in a big way and they haven’t done a project near where I live EVER that I can remember. During my time of contributing they reestablished huntable population of elk in pa and ky. The world’s upside down as a long term Idaho resident I put in for a Kentucky elk tag a lot of years. Quit listening to the influencers and tag services they are killing a small number of western states for their personal profits. I have put in for mountain goat forever I decided I will save money and actually go before I am dead by just buying a guided hunt in ak. I got a sheep in the Montana unlimited hunt and a moose in Idaho so I’m kinda done losing money on the oil hunts. Wave when you pass an Idaho truck going to hunt in your backyard when you’re going on that elk hunt that cost thousands and took years to get !

 

[CJ19]

I literally have argued for keeping preference out of left over draws. You are literally alienating the few people that are up on regulation and want to see equity in the system. Your greed and selfishness blows me away.

Please get me up to speed on Utahs allocation? I've heard nothing but bad things about anyone, including residents getting tags.

Quoting 7 words out of 450 just reinforces your small view of what is going on. Yes please take you ball and go home.

His post captured the essence of you said just fine. There are some people on these and other forums that are in for a very rude awakening regarding public lands in a few years time. Ppl are trying to warn you and other western residents now. You cant expect ppl to keep pumping money in and not see a benefit in return. "Muh love of public lands" is not going to be enough. Public lands are about #7 or 8 on most sportman voters priority lists at this point and #2,194 on non sportsman voter lists. We cant talk about politics here on this forum but that is the reality of the situation. There is not going to be any help from non resident sportsman on big issues like PLT in the very near future. Thats becoming a fact very quickly.

 

[Bighorner]

Resident greed and selfishness and short sightedness is what this thread is about and you've provided a great example.

Not sure how you can guage my selfishness within a context where the rules were changed solely to benefit you.

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Utah has arguably the worst allocation out there. Its has some of the worst draw odds for the general public and some of the highest prices when sold on the open market, both things you guys are continually comparing about. Why don't you spend some time fixing that?

Utah already has 90/10 for elk.

Again if you missed it Utah already has 90/10 for elk.

If you are so sure WY is being greedy why are you having to hunt as a non resident? So WY is greedy, but has a better NR tag allocation?

Maybe you missed my earlier post about getting up to speed on regulations

 

[Bighorner]

His post captured the essence of you said just fine. There are some people on these and other forums that are in for a very rude awakening regarding public lands in a few years time. Ppl are trying to warn you and other western residents now. You cant expect ppl to keep pumping money in and not see a benefit in return. "Muh love of public lands" is not going to be enough. Public lands are about #7 or 8 on most sportman voters priority lists at this point and #2,194 on non sportsman voter lists. We cant talk about politics here on this forum but that is the reality of the situation. There is not going to be any help from non resident sportsman on big issues like PTL in the very near future. Thats becoming a fact very quickly.

I get that alot of people dont care about what they don't know about. There is a ton of great things and places out there I don't support because i dont know about them.

Making an empty threat about not getting drunk and spending 500 bucks with your buddies at an RMEF function really dosent hold water. Sorry but that's not going to sink the boat.

You comapin about my short sightedness than call to pull the plug on conservation because WY went 90/10 on tags you were never going to draw anyway. Get real. Don't act like you are the only thing standing in the way of elk being on the landscape. Your resolve is paper thin. Read this thread and tell me that's not the case.

 

[CJ19]

I get that alot of people dont care about what they don't know about. There is a ton of great things and places out there I don't support because i dont know about them.

Making an empty threat about not getting drunk and spending 500 bucks with your buddies at an RMEF function really dosent hold water. Sorry but that's not going to sink the boat.

You comapin about my short sightedness than call to pull the plug on conservation because WY went 90/10 on tags you were never going to draw anyway. Get real. Don't act like you are the only thing standing in the way of elk being on the landscape. Your resolve is paper thin. Read this thread and tell me that's not the case.

Its not the case. Im telling you NR hunters are not going be there to stop ppl like Mike Lee in a few years time bc there are more important issues.

 

[tdhanses]

Utah has arguably the worst allocation out there. Its has some of the worst draw odds for the general public and some of the highest prices when sold on the open market, both things you guys are continually comparing about. Why don't you spend some time fixing that?

Utah already has 90/10 for elk.

Again if you missed it Utah already has 90/10 for elk.

If you are so sure WY is being greedy why are you having to hunt as a non resident? So WY is greedy, but has a better NR tag allocation?

Maybe you missed my earlier post about getting up to speed on regulations

Haha… can you get elk tags otc as a resident in WY?

 

[Bighorner]

Haha… can you get elk tags otc as a resident in WY?

Yes. My goodness learn some regulations. Holly crap. Google is free.

I can explain it for you, but I cant understand it for you.

 

[tdhanses]

Yes. My goodness learn some regulations. Holly crap. Google is free.

I can explain it for you, but I cant understand it for you.

I already knew the answer, does UT have otc elk tags that are similar to WY?

WY really can’t compare itself to other states even though it tries, it needs a few million more residents first and vastly reduced resident opportunities to even act like it’s in the same situation. WY changes are pure resident greed, as no one in WY is missing hunting anything but maybe is missing hunting trophies or OIL type animals, otherwise they get a bucket full of tags if they try in the current system.

 

[CorbLand]

I already knew the answer, does UT have otc elk tags that are similar to WY?

WY really can’t compare itself to other states even though it tries, it needs a few million more residents first.

I dont really pay attention to OTC in Wyoming but yes, Utah does have OTC elk opportunities for NR.

 

[CorbLand]

Serious question for NRs. Do you all let your voices be heard or do you sit back and think that residents are going to fight for you?

How many of you have emailed the wildlife board here in Utah regarding NR opportunity? Why isn't there a nonprofit that fights for NRs? Most nonprofits have a very narrow lane they focus on. A nonprofit to fight for NR would be a good thing. Do you only show up when its going to negatively affect you?

 

[Bighorner]

You still have 90/10 on elk. That's a ratio. So population, man and elk leaves the equation.

 

[tdhanses]

I dont really pay attention to OTC in Wyoming but yes, Utah does have OTC elk opportunities for NR.

So residents can hunt elk annually in UT if they want, it isn’t like the opportunity isn’t there then, I’ve never looked into UT.

 

[CJ19]

Serious question for NRs. Do you all let your voices be heard or do you sit back and think that residents are going to fight for you?

How many of you have emailed the wildlife board here in Utah regarding NR opportunity? Why isn't there a nonprofit that fights for NRs? Most nonprofits have a very narrow lane they focus on. A nonprofit to fight for NR would be a good thing.

Thats a very good question. I have never gotten involved in UT issues. But i view my applications to other states as a statement towards my desire to get a tag when i apply. Furthermore i fill out surveys cor the states for which i apply. Great point thanks for bringing it up.

 

[307]

I already knew the answer, does UT have otc elk tags that are similar to WY?

WY really can’t compare itself to other states even though it tries, it needs a few million more residents first and vastly reduced resident opportunities to even act like it’s in the same situation. WY changes are pure resident greed, as no one in WY is missing hunting anything but maybe is missing hunting trophies or OIL type animals, otherwise they get a bucket full of tags if they try in the current system.

This is a safe space for you to come out of the closet as a Trans Wyomingite. Your Wyo-phobia isn't fooling anybody. It's time for you to admit what you really are, wrap yourself in that beautiful bison flag, and get that horse and rider tattoo over your heart.

You won't be judged. Be brave.

 

[tdhanses]

This is a safe space for you to come out of the closet as a Trans Wyomingite. Your Wyo-phobia isn't fooling anybody. It's time for you to admit what you really are, wrap yourself in that beautiful bison flag, and get that horse and rider tattoo over your heart.

You won't be judged. Be brave.

That made me laugh pretty good