The RAVEN mini action thread

[khuber84]

@Stocky how can it be scaled too small for an arc, but enough for a 223, when the saami cartridge lengths for them are the same?

 

[Brontosaurus]

I've been thinking about it and if your gonna go off the deep end for a UL mountain rifle. Single shot might be the better answer. If you need a true UL weapon then thats what the UL thread is for. A true scaled action would be sweet. But we dont "need" one. (Even though i REALLY want one) Modded tikkas work fine. The insanity of a new ecosystem is a stretch. Creating a single shot from the ground up almost feels more feasible.

The market has been missing a good single shot since TC left. Now your left with mid CVAs or something insane like a blaser kiplauf. No middle ground. More people would get behind a moderately priced correctly designed single shot. Than a overpriced howa mini. Just my 2 cents tho.

 

[Stocky]

@Stocky how can it be scaled too small for an arc, but enough for a 223, when the saami cartridge lengths for them are the same?

Diameter its more efficient for weight in terms of scaling ie why the 84l kimber is way lighter than the 8400 wsm. Decreased diameter decreases weight through the supporting areas and reduces shank diameter. For length the Arcs win really but I just dont see that gain worth it to not have access to the cheapest brass available.

 

[Stocky]

I've been thinking about it and if your gonna go off the deep end for a UL mountain rifle. Single shot might be the better answer. If you need a true UL weapon then thats what the UL thread is for. A true scaled action would be sweet. But we dont "need" one. (Even though i REALLY want one) Modded tikkas work fine. The insanity of a new ecosystem is a stretch. Creating a single shot from the ground up almost feels more feasible.

The market has been missing a good single shot since TC left. Now your left with mid CVAs or something insane like a blaser kiplauf. No middle ground. More people would get behind a moderately priced correctly designed single shot. Than a overpriced howa mini. Just my 2 cents tho.

Id argue a new bolt is way more useful than a single shot. But an aluminium action with steel as required bolt would have similar weight to a single shot. Singles shots are notoriously heavy for similar pressure handling capability. A kimber for example is lighter than almost any other 308 capable singleshot due to inefficiency of the locking mechanism in most single shots.

 

[Brontosaurus]

Id argue a new bolt is way more useful than a single shot. But an aluminium action with steel as required bolt would have similar weight to a single shot. Singles shots are notoriously heavy for similar pressure handling capability. A kimber for example is lighter than almost any other 308 capable singleshot due to inefficiency of the locking mechanism in most single shots.

Fair. But with the single shot you gain a very pleasing oal. Not to mention the ability to stow it. Al actions are cool. An al tikka mini would be insane.

 

[Stocky]

Fair. But with the single shot you gain a very pleasing oal. Not to mention the ability to stow it. Al actions are cool. An al tikka mini would be insane.

Ive actually started modelling an aluminium tikka to use tikka inlets for the smaller cases. The lack of improving length is why I've not setup to make one yet. The mini mag options is a hold up currently and having proprietary mags hurts adoption as does unique inletting but using existing hamstrings good design. The arc in ar mags definitely seems a somewhat easy options with decent coal and still a small efficient case option but brass is so expensive here still.

I do like a short single. I ran a Bergara BA13TD (CVA scout or something in the States) in 308. Would take it down and chuck it in the pack to hitch-hike back to the vehicle to allow longer trips and not need for 2 vehicles.

Ive got a Blaser R8 im going to try lighten to see how i like it for a short repeater and switch barrel setup. May see if I can come up with a machineable way to replicate on a smaller scale. Thats saves roughly 2.5 inchs on even a mini action.

Id expect ill have something in a true sclaed mini action but likely a one off at some stage. Id love to have an off the shelf option though as custom works time consuming and the current options as peopl have said are super good enough. The AR systems are unfortunately a complicated hassle for here in NZ as it seems the easy button. No one seems sure whether they are allowed and I dont want to play games with firearms import laws.

 

[ezwy]

CZ 527 needs to return

I agree, but there are usually a couple on here that nobody buys.

 

[pathnz]

I'd be into it

 

[bpatterson]

I want this badly. Y’all fussing about stocks, remember the T1x fits in the T3x stocks, so there’s solutions to make it work.

 

[ACHILLES]

Line 49 makes a super short action for the arc cartridges. But there has been zero issues with my 22arc on a tikka using a 223rem bolt stop and there are several mag options now for tikka & acis. Plus I got the whole t3 223rem rifle for $550. A new custom mini action would be awesome but expensive and not gain anything over using existing receiver options. Regardless I bet we will see some custom mini actions in the coming years.

LINE49 SuperShort Action, .445" Bolt Face, Cerakote Black

Our flagship model, the SUPERSHORT action [SSA] designed from the ground up and machined from a single block of certified 416R stainless steel. We machine these actions from start to finish on our Okuma MULTUS multi-axis CNC machine, holding precise toler

line49rifle.com

 

[Marbles]

I want this badly. Y’all fussing about stocks, remember the T1x fits in the T3x stocks, so there’s solutions to make it work.

The T1x uses a pretty small shank diameter. It certainly wouldn't work with Tikka prefits, and that approach possibly wouldn't give enough shank to be safe with center-fire.

You could extend the threaded portion of the shank and action, but that would also mean no Tikka prefit barrels and more weight. Also no more interchangeability of most Tikka bolt parts. How many people would take a heavier action and all the other downsides to save only 1/2 inch?

 

[Stocky]

The T1x uses a pretty small shank diameter. It certainly wouldn't work with Tikka prefits, and that approach possibly wouldn't give enough shank to be safe with center-fire.

You could extend the threaded portion of the shank and action, but that would also mean no Tikka prefit barrels and more weight. Also no more interchangeability of most Tikka bolt parts. How many people would take a heavier action and all the other downsides to save only 1/2 inch?

It would be plenty of shank. Have you ever seem a thompson contender. Plus they arr welded And the scope mount holes are drilled in the barrel right above the chamber. They are about 2/3rds the diameter of the t1x shank. A kimber action is smaller diameter than a t1x shank.

 

[hereinaz]

I have a Howa Mini and a Winchester WSSM, both are very fun little guns. It does take a bit to get used to different bolt lift, and even the 90 to 70 stroke, but it’s not a huge issue.

@Stocky if you want to share, I would be interested.

I have toyed with something akin to a Sig Cross making an aluminum action/chassis that accepts a steel headspace extension like an AR barrel. Carbon fiber AR forend and stock. Or, get some flattop Stocky’s Mini stocks.

AICS mags could be shortened and 3d printed.

If there were a time ever in the world to make a niche product like this is now…

Still not cheap.

The low cost to dress up a Howa Mini is what keeps me from going any further in the thought process.

Heck, I had even thought of just cutting the bolt, making it like a Savage with floating head, and cutting the action and welding it back together. That mod would cost less than building out new everything.

But, the weight savings is isn’t huge and I can dress up a Howa Mini. That still doesn’t stop my brain from thinking about stuff like this…

 

[hereinaz]

Line 49 makes a super short action for the arc cartridges. But there has been zero issues with my 22arc on a tikka using a 223rem bolt stop and there are several mag options now for tikka & acis. Plus I got the whole t3 223rem rifle for $550. A new custom mini action would be awesome but expensive and not gain anything over using existing receiver options. Regardless I bet we will see some custom mini actions in the coming years.

LINE49 SuperShort Action, .445" Bolt Face, Cerakote Black

Our flagship model, the SUPERSHORT action [SSA] designed from the ground up and machined from a single block of certified 416R stainless steel. We machine these actions from start to finish on our Okuma MULTUS multi-axis CNC machine, holding precise toler

line49rifle.com

This is an interesting option, but with a 90 degree bolt throw it doesn’t offer me anything more than a Mini.

 

[nm.otter]

Sako 90 XS

 

[Marbles]

It would be plenty of shank. Have you ever seem a thompson contender. Plus they arr welded And the scope mount holes are drilled in the barrel right above the chamber. They are about 2/3rds the diameter of the t1x shank. A kimber action is smaller diameter than a t1x shank.

You have measurements?

Because, I have handled all 3 (T1x, TC contender, and Kimber 84) I think your statement is wrong on its face and I considered those and other examples before posting.

I'll check my memory:
-0.70" O.D. shank on a T1x, which is unthreaded.
-1.05" O.D. shank on a Kimber 84
-Contender shank is 0.81" O.D and unthreaded
-AR shanks are around 1.0" O.D.

0.70 may be "plenty of shank" but you fail to make the case as all your examples are larger. Let's see if I can make it for you.

Given the smooth shank of a T1x, lets assume 0.700 is the minor thread diameter.

SAAMI max chamber I.D.
223 = 0.3789"
6 ARC = 0.4446"
6 GT = 0.4730"

So, absolute minimum minor O.D. for 0.100 wall thickness would be:
0.5789"
0.6446"
0.6730"

If we use the safer wall thickness of 0.130, then:
0.6389"
0.7046"
0.7330"

So, looks like a 223 is pretty safe, but anything bigger gets into the realm of questionable.

You might be able work a T1x style action to take a 0.900" shank; which would land you with something more workable (but still smaller than a Kimber 84 and possibly thinner walls than a contender once thread).

Edit, you would need a shoulder, so major diameter of the threads would end up about 0.81 and minor diameter would end up around 0.7. So, not actually much different once I think on it a little more

Edit again: I may be using 'shank' wrong, perhaps the term I want is tenon. Actually, I think that is the case. So, a contender shank is smaller than a factory T1x shank, though the smooth tenon of the T1x is smaller than the contender and the shank on a T1x can be up to 0.900. This is why I said "possibly wouldn't" in my first post and hopped for a smarter person to give an answer.

Sako 90 XS

This is the answer.

 

[hereinaz]

Sako 90 XS

There is also the CZ527 mini action.

 

[Marbles]

I edited my post, but as it may have already been read by some, I will repost my corrections.

I may be using 'shank' wrong, I think the term I want is tenon. So, a contender shank is smaller than a factory T1x shank, though the smooth tenon of the T1x is smaller than the contender (is it still a tenon if not threaded?).

The shank on a T1x can be up to 0.900. My lack of experience, as reflected by miss using terms, is why I said "possibly wouldn't" in my first post and hoped for a smarter person to give an answer.

As there there needs to be a shoulder, major diameter of the threads would end up about 0.81 and minor diameter would end up around 0.7. So, not actually much different than the initial assumptions.

 

[Stocky]

You have measurements?

Because, I have handled all 3 (T1x, TC contender, and Kimber 84) I think your statement is wrong on its face and I considered those and other examples before posting.

I'll check my memory:
-0.70" O.D. shank on a T1x, which is unthreaded.
-1.05" O.D. shank on a Kimber 84
-Contender shank is 0.81" O.D and unthreaded
-AR shanks are around 1.0" O.D.

0.70 may be "plenty of shank" but you fail to make the case as all your examples are larger. Let's see if I can make it for you.

Given the smooth shank of a T1x, lets assume 0.700 is the minor thread diameter.

SAAMI max chamber I.D.
223 = 0.3789"
6 ARC = 0.4446"
6 GT = 0.4730"

So, absolute minimum minor O.D. for 0.100 wall thickness would be:
0.5789"
0.6446"
0.6730"

If we use the safer wall thickness of 0.130, then:
0.6389"
0.7046"
0.7330"

So, looks like a 223 is pretty safe, but anything bigger gets into the realm of questionable.

You might be able work a T1x style action to take a 0.900" shank; which would land you with something more workable (but still smaller than a Kimber 84 and possibly thinner walls than a contender once thread).

Edit, you would need a shoulder, so major diameter of the threads would end up about 0.81 and minor diameter would end up around 0.7. So, not actually much different once I think on it a little more

Edit again: I may be using 'shank' wrong, perhaps the term I want is tenon. Actually, I think that is the case. So, a contender shank is smaller than a factory T1x shank, though the smooth tenon of the T1x is smaller than the contender and the shank on a T1x can be up to 0.900. This is why I said "possibly wouldn't" in my first post and hopped for a smarter person to give an answer.

This is the answer.

Yes I meant shank not tenon as you have pointed out.

The scope holes in a contender barrel are about 0.1 deep from memory and right above the chamber and also not supported unlike a the tenon thread which has the action surrounding it.

Barrels dont fail via being to thin almost at all. Its almost always a blocked barrel.

Im not saying it could be done but most rifles are heiniously overbuilt with locking lugs failing first. A kimber is chambered for cartridges with roughly 50% more bolt thrust and the Tikka double and both have signifcant Factor of safety designed in. Also the minor on the ar15 thread inside the extension is 0.7376" and issues usually come from bolts not barrels failing.

I guess its always a compromise to use an existing footprint and I would have assumed not being able to potentially use .308 or ARC bolt face was a potential given due to space constraints.

 

[Stocky]

I have a Howa Mini and a Winchester WSSM, both are very fun little guns. It does take a bit to get used to different bolt lift, and even the 90 to 70 stroke, but it’s not a huge issue.

@Stocky if you want to share, I would be interested.

I have toyed with something akin to a Sig Cross making an aluminum action/chassis that accepts a steel headspace extension like an AR barrel. Carbon fiber AR forend and stock. Or, get some flattop Stocky’s Mini stocks.

AICS mags could be shortened and 3d printed.

If there were a time ever in the world to make a niche product like this is now…

Still not cheap.

The low cost to dress up a Howa Mini is what keeps me from going any further in the thought process.

Heck, I had even thought of just cutting the bolt, making it like a Savage with floating head, and cutting the action and welding it back together. That mod would cost less than building out new everything.

But, the weight savings is isn’t huge and I can dress up a Howa Mini. That still doesn’t stop my brain from thinking about stuff like this…

I dont want to say too much but I have something modeled along those lines but have just lost my ability to machine it myself for a bit. Personally to benefits of a Mini action are to reduce overall length rather than save weight. The weight in actions is in the diameter not the length as the magwell adds minimal weight and the larger cutout in the same profile stock often negates some weights savings. So I want it as short as is reasonably possible from the trigger position to the bolt face. Hence why I like the contenders as they are slightly bullpupped, and appreciate the shortness of the blaser although one built to suit 308 length cases would be even better.

Also what did you want to see from that post?