The point Creep is ridiculous

[Hnthrdr]

Do we all despise the internet hunters yet? Or will that not happen until we're all only hunting once every 5 years?
Corb nailed it above. The root cause isn't the draw system. It's too much demand chasing too few tags. That massive recent increase in demand is driven by all of the absurd attention hunting is getting on the web.
Point based systems end with the people who draw being the ones who outlive everyone else Drawing becomes mathematically predictable to the year, insofar as the number of years occurs before the applicant dies.
Fully random draws also reach a point where the odds are fundamentally zero. They have the accelerated effect of encouraging new people to jump in, because they have the same terrible odds as everyone else.
Nevada's points squaring system is probably the best balance, but the outcome is the same.
If there's any hope for the numbers not getting worse, it's shutting up all of the attention seekers. Maybe it's time they understand that their behavior is destructive and unwelcome.

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Amen…

 

[wapitibob]

I can draw Elk, Deer, and Pronghorn right now with zero points and fill every tag. If you aren't drawing tags it's your own fault.

 

[BuckRut]

What if we make it so you have to use your points to enter the draw? If you have 18 points you can elect to put any or all of them down in your application and have X number of chances. After that the points are gone whether you draw or not. Any points you did not put in the draw are still yours to spend as you wish.

 

[william schmaltz]

It’s not just places with points, it’s random draw areas too. Several tags that were 5-10% odds in AK a decade ago are now well under 1% odds. People just put in because it’s cheap. The barrier to entry is low. If they raise prices to weed people out, everyone loses their minds. A goat tag with absolute nightmare access that I drew 9 years ago had a 60% draw odds at the time. Last year it had under 5% draw odds. Of the 30 people that drew the tag in 2024, only 6 hunted it and 2 tagged out. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were the only two that actually went to shore.

For the OP, the detailed unit information that you gave in your first post could likely set you back in line even more. Just an FYI.

 

[lyingflatlander]

The long game includes waiting for people to die or get debilitated in old age that are in front of you chief.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

It's a huge problem. Lets say you grew up in a non-hunting family. you're a 20-21 year old and have learned about hunting from the internet or friends. now you want to go. oh hey, you won't draw for 10 years. boom there goes a new hunter gone.

Plenty of tags available with much less than a 10 year wait.

 

[PathFinder]

That's true right now, but more and more of those hunts disappear every year.

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[bergie]

Do we all despise the internet hunters yet? Or will that not happen until we're all only hunting once every 5 years?
Corb nailed it above. The root cause isn't the draw system. It's too much demand chasing too few tags. That massive recent increase in demand is driven by all of the absurd attention hunting is getting on the web.
Point based systems end with the people who draw being the ones who outlive everyone else Drawing becomes mathematically predictable to the year, insofar as the number of years occurs before the applicant dies.
Fully random draws also reach a point where the odds are fundamentally zero. They have the accelerated effect of encouraging new people to jump in, because they have the same terrible odds as everyone else.
Nevada's points squaring system is probably the best balance, but the outcome is the same.
If there's any hope for the numbers not getting worse, it's shutting up all of the attention seekers. Maybe it's time they understand that their behavior is destructive and unwelcome.

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you sound like you want folks to 'Hunt Quietly'

Those guys are a little wild at times but their overall point I think is worthwhile.

Problem with that model is advertisers will become limited in their reach and we all know that $$ drive the influencers (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, websites, forums) to persuade the masses to keep the status quo. Without influencers how would we ever decide where to spend our money??? would we *gasp* have to do our own research and think for ourselves? Man that sounds terrible.

 

[diamond10x]

Sounds like a lot of you should just quit applying for draw tags and only hunt OTC or just quit hunting in general since it just sicks so bad. I'm sure the rest of us would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Macintosh]

Y’all are welcome to come hunt whitetails in northern new england with multiple OTC tags, almost 3-month seasons, and about 10-15% success rate. I get the frustration, just dont lose sight of how good you have it at the same time.

 

[PredatoronthePrairie]

It's a huge problem. Lets say you grew up in a non-hunting family. you're a 20-21 year old and have learned about hunting from the internet or friends. now you want to go. oh hey, you won't draw for 10 years. boom there goes a new hunter gone.

Not so sure about that.

Quick search can turn up plenty of low to no point options.

Not every hunt has to be a dream tag.

 

[Customweld]

The funny thing about Idaho draw system being random is: As a resident, i can only apply for one species.
So if i want a good elk unit, i can't apply for moose, or sheep or deer, ect. The state has to limit the amount of applicants some how.

You can apply for elk, deer and bear and pronghorn all in the same year. You just can't put in for them if you put in for one of the OIL species.

 

[blacktail434]

The long game includes waiting for people to die or get debilitated in old age that are in front of you chief.

And hope there are still animals and tags availble when/if that time comes.... there are still lots of opportunities to get out there on OTC tags every year.

 

[dirtytough]

I dont know any that issues tags to the level that CO does. How many draw tags does CO issue? I know they issue a ton but not sure if the numbers I have seen included the OTC hunts.

Utah, you can turn your tag back in before a deadline. You get your points back minus one for that year before the deadline. The tag is reissued and the person that it is reissued to loses all their points. While Utah doesnt issue tags close to what CO does, it still doesnt make a dent in point creep. Someone is getting a tag and losing points regardless of who hunts the tag here. Odds are only getting worse, even on our more liberal hunts.

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Does Colorado look at all or some of your choices first or only first choice? If a tag is surrendered does it get reissued and does that person lose their points?

Point creep is caused by having more people wanting to hunt than there are tags. The trend over the last 30 years in the West has been more hunters and less tags. Really, no matter how you issue tags or what perimeters you put on them, unless you can reduce number of hunters and/or increase the number of tags, point creep will exist. But like I said in my first post, you either call it point creep or reduced probability of drawing because its happening in all Western states regardless of their draw system.

lol you don’t understand even after I clarified. Then you say states have tried it yet can’t name one state.

States is plural so there must be two or more.

What states take your points if you get a tag for that species? I can’t think of one state. Educate me please.

 

[tt_johnsclist]

Y’all are welcome to come hunt whitetails in northern new england with multiple OTC tags, almost 3-month seasons, and about 10-15% success rate. I get the frustration, just dont lose sight of how good you have it at the same time.

Be careful what you wish for!

 

[LongWayAround]

It's like Diego told George "you had the wrong dream."

 

[roadrunner]

Write your commission with all your buddies and ask them to get rid of the point system completely. To my knowledge only Idaho and New Mexico are the western states to avoid all that BS, thankfully.

And the very reason we've seen a surge in applications. No penalty for starting late, reducing your chances...

 

[ElkArcher918]

Unfortunately you’ve most likely been chasing an impossible dream since you set your sights on 201, 15-18 years ago.

Yeap, I call that chasing a "ghost" trophy tag. It's unfortunate but it's today's reality. The only way I see it is to deal with the crazy point creep is to a transition to a random draw.

 

[CorbLand]

lol you don’t understand even after I clarified. Then you say states have tried it yet can’t name one state.

States is plural so there must be two or more.

What states take your points if you get a tag for that species? I can’t think of one state. Educate me please.

I do understand what you are saying. I miss understood what you originally said and posted my clarification after you responded back. I did misunderstand you originally.

You seem to trying to argue with me and I am just posting.

But you win, I lose. I will just take my point and try again next time.

 

[RS_Non-Res]

@dirtytough ... I think I've experienced OR taking my points when I drew a 2nd or 3rd choice elk tag. Willing to hear otherwise...I depend too much on my resident buddy to keep track of the system. I sure didn't want to spend my points on that unit.