The Myth of sustainable Elk numbers....a saga of government conspiracy

[Praxeus]

After reading thread after thread of the same info about diminishing elk numbers throughout the west, thought Id share a true story from this past season in Colorado. A dear friend and elkaholic was bowhunting in the flattop wilderness last year with several other guys. They hiked and hiked and hiked and saw very little sign with no one releasing an arrow. One evening after hiking for miles, they were returning to camp and ran into a sheep herder and a Colorado Fish and Game officer. After some small talk the officer offered this: "Colorado is still riding on a 25 year old reputation of huge elk numbers and herds. Its just not that way anymore.....".

This statement echoes the feelings I have about not just the myth of elk numbers (are always an estimate) but that states would sell tags for animals that they know are non-existent. This is gambling or like a lottery. Or worse, robbery and a knowing mis-representation of natural resources.

What the future holds for future elk hunters? Im not being pessimistic but just realistic. Not good.

 

[5MilesBack]

What the future holds for future elk hunters? Im not being pessimistic but just realistic. Not good.

CO could have 500k elk right now and I would have that same sentiment........just from all the new development, the increase in people pressure (hunting and other recreation), continual drought, and wolves.......regardless how many tags they issue.

 

[Praxeus]

5mile- You're right. However- Im thinking that those in authority should be a little more transparent about the numbers. Its disingenuous to sell tags knowing that there isn't a sustainable amount of elk

 

[cnelk]

I know several guys that punched their archery elk tags in the Flattops last year. They didnt have a problem

 

[Runningwater]

I think the term government conspiracy is rather overused.

 

[KHNC]

I know several guys that punched their archery elk tags in the Flattops last year. They didnt have a problem

Someone has to get that 5-6% success rate going.

 

[Laramie]

I can't speak for the Colorado population but in 2 other states I frequent, elk numbers are better now than they were 20 years ago. The increased pressure does make it more difficult but the elk are there. This past season was challenging with extreme drought in many areas combined with widespread fires. The drought conditions forced elk into the valleys in many areas- often on to private land. The fires displaced 1000s of hunters creating unusually high hunter densities in non fire areas.

The sky isn't falling...yet. Once you get a healthy wolf population the discussion may shift some but I still like my chances of filling a tag if I can draw one.

 

[5MilesBack]

I know several guys that punched their archery elk tags in the Flattops last year. They didnt have a problem

Filling tags right now isn't the problem.

 

[wytx]

Sorry but our elk numbers are not diminishing. They are just harder to hunt in some areas.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

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[Coveyleader]

Elk are where you find them. BUTTTTTTT and I can't make that any bigger, one thing is certain, if there are sheep around, and you find yourself near them, one huge word comes to mind.......... MOVEEEEEEEEEEE

Sheep and elk just don't mix. If you find your "Go to Spot" has sheep in it no matter how long you were staring at it all winter via Google, suck it up, and move.

 

[trophyhill]

When you have 10 hunters per square mile, it just seems that way because they play Hoodini. I remember a guy telling me one time in my early years of elk hunting about 12 years ago he said

“elk aren’t necessarily smart, they are just incredibly good at surviving” Bob Muley

 

[CAElkhunter]

Maybe they are just getting better at being "Elk" than we are as hunters......they are tough bastards which is why I love chasin them.

 

[BuzzH]

Lot's of people like to live in the past, hunt on memories, and are unwilling to adapt and adjust.

Can't blame them, I don't like finding new areas, hunting differently, etc. but if I want to find elk consistently I have no choice.

In general, I think elk hunting was way tougher in the 1980's than now for all kinds of reasons.

 

[Jbehredt]

Lot's of people like to live in the past, hunt on memories, and are unwilling to adapt and adjust.

Can't blame them, I don't like finding new areas, hunting differently, etc. but if I want to find elk consistently I have no choice.

In general, I think elk hunting was way tougher in the 1980's than now for all kinds of reasons.

And a good number of guys in elk camp, with tags, who may even hike a few miles each day aren’t all in on killing elk. They want to get their first or second favorite camp site, the one they found with their dad. They want to get away from work, the kids and the wife. They want a roaring fire, some cold drinks. They love a good excuse for not bringing home any meat.... again. Like blaming the state of CO for not having enough elk to go around.

 

[slim9300]

I will say this, WA over-exaggerates the heck out of our elk numbers. The state has claimed there has been 60,000 elk in our state for as long as I can remember. We have 100,000 OTC elk hunters with 8% overall success and with zero control on what units are hunted. Tell me how that is management?

Either way, I kill my elk every year, but I bust my ass and I have paid my dues to get here. I don’t see how the future isn’t going to be bleak with the natural and unnatural spread of the wolf, no real cat and bear management, and a growing human population.


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[Mosby]

I don't know what's true or not anymore. I turkey hunt, bear hunt, deer hunt, elk hunt and pheasant hunt and guys are always complaining about the lack of game, no matter where I go. Some days I see a lot. Some days I don't see squat. If I hunt enough, eventually I kill something. If I don't, I go home and take a nap with my dogs. I try to keep things simple and enjoy the process.

 

[Praxeus]

I

I will say this, WA over-exaggerates the heck out of our elk numbers. The state has claimed there has been 60,000 elk in our state for as long as I can remember. We have 100,000 OTC elk hunters with 8% overall success and with zero control on what units are hunted. Tell me how that is management?

Either way, I kill my elk every year, but I bust my ass and I have paid my dues to get here. I don’t see how the future isn’t going to be bleak with the natural and unnatural spread of the wolf, no real cat and bear management, and a growing human population.

I could not have explained my point better than what slim stated here.

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[WTFJohn]

After reading thread after thread of the same info about diminishing elk numbers throughout the west, thought Id share a true story from this past season in Colorado. A dear friend and elkaholic was bowhunting in the flattop wilderness last year with several other guys. They hiked and hiked and hiked and saw very little sign with no one releasing an arrow. One evening after hiking for miles, they were returning to camp and ran into a sheep herder and a Colorado Fish and Game officer. After some small talk the officer offered this: "Colorado is still riding on a 25 year old reputation of huge elk numbers and herds. Its just not that way anymore.....".

This statement echoes the feelings I have about not just the myth of elk numbers (are always an estimate) but that states would sell tags for animals that they know are non-existent. This is gambling or like a lottery. Or worse, robbery and a knowing mis-representation of natural resources.

What the future holds for future elk hunters? Im not being pessimistic but just realistic. Not good.

You're reading lots of threads from NR hunters would be my guess; are you a resident or NR? No one in CPW is actually using 25 yr old data to make decisions now. We're having calf recruitment issues in certain areas (and others have had a decline in population), but overall CO is still doing well on total population.

For anyone interested, Colorado counts elk in quite a few different ways. Looking at a calendar year, there are winter population counts done via helo and fixed-wing planes. They will also trap and collar cow elk in Jan/Feb/March, implanting a transmitter into the vagina that will go off when she gives birth so they can collar the calf. Beginning in May, there are typically CPW volunteer elk population counts. These are done with teams/solo volunteers & biologists hiking into/glassing various areas and counting elk by sex and age, noting feeding and nursing activities during defined time windows in the same locations year after year (generally south facing slopes where the snow melts off soonest). June/July/August there will be summer population counts, typically done from the air counting elk above treeline. From then until December when the winter population counts start back up, there isn't much directly happening.

Throughout all of this (in certain parts of CO), there are also dozens of CPW game cameras randomly distributed across the landscape in various areas. The data from these cameras (which can be in the woods for a year at a time) is plugged into a program that outputs species counts and estimated area populations based on what can be seen over time. Combined with GPS collar data and the harvest data from hunters, all of this gives a decent picture as to what our population is. It doesn't mean the number is exactly right, but we can trust the trends we see.