Drop the 1,500 ft.lbs myth

mattg65

FNG
Joined
Dec 10, 2022
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44
Wheres the formula???
You can’t bring up something and say hey this thing over here proves me right, then when someone asks you to show it to them, say go find it yourself. If it’s that important to you post it.
I already said it’s irrelevant to my point.
 

bmart2622

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Jun 16, 2013
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Location
Montana
You can’t bring up something and say hey this thing over here proves me right, then when someone asks you to show it to them, say go find it yourself. If it’s that important to you post it.
I already said it’s irrelevant to my point.
Uhhhh, I just did!!! Im not going to prove your point for you!!
 
OP
Shō[t]gun
Joined
Nov 28, 2022
Messages
749
The formula for calculating energy is irrelevant to this discussion as how you calculate an objects velocity doesn’t tell you how it got to that velocity.
You can’t get velocity, whatever that velocity is or how it’s calculated without energy being expended. You also can’t have a projectile moving at any velocity without it also possessing energy. That was the whole point of my original comment.
There are a lot of formulas that include velocity that are irrelevant to terminal performance...
 

mattg65

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Joined
Dec 10, 2022
Messages
44
There are a lot of formulas that include velocity that are irrelevant to terminal performance...
I meant to say formula for calculating velocity in that post.
And I never said that velocity wasn’t important, only that energy is also important
 

blkqi

WKR
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Aug 21, 2017
Messages
435
I don’t disagree with most of that. What I’m saying is that by saying the bullet has a minimum velocity for expansion, you are also saying it has a minimum energy for expansion.
My point is that both values are important.
As I understand it, bullet expansion is largely dictated by drag, and drag is proportional to velocity, but independent of mass. Therefore it is not useful to include energy in the discussion of bullet expansion.
 

Caseknife

Lil-Rokslider
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Feb 22, 2020
Messages
282
Basically you have to have velocity and mass to do anything with a bullet. Velocity without mass does nothing mass without velocity does nothing, therefore you are left with the third leg of the formula, energy.
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
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At some point in the future this forum will be flush with threads and comments stating something along the lines of “you don't need to use a powder-propelled lead or copper bullet since a well placed leather needle at sufficient speed will cause fatal bleeding. Now here, look at this photo I took of my needle killed elk. Look at these data. And so on.” Blah blah blah.

Small and/or slow projectiles will never pass the sniff test with me.
 

Maverick1

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Jun 1, 2013
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1,681
At some point in the future this forum will be flush with threads and comments stating something along the lines of “you don't need to use a powder-propelled lead or copper bullet since a well placed leather needle at sufficient speed will cause fatal bleeding. Now here, look at this photo I took of my needle killed elk. Look at these data. And so on.” Blah blah blah.

Small and/or slow projectiles will never pass the sniff test with me.
I have killed several elk with a 5 mm projectile weighing 425 grains, going about 290 feet per second, for about 80 ft-lbs KE. Far below the 1500 “myth”. Placement is key.
 

buffybr

Lil-Rokslider
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Feb 3, 2024
Messages
108
Location
Bozangles, MT
This is a super helpful analogy while talking about bullets. 🙄
No, it's a perfect analogy for those who say that velocity, not energy kills.

We live in a society that practically revolves around speed and velocity. How fast do you walk? How fast is the speed limit and how much can you push it and not get a speeding ticket? How fast are airplanes?

Velocity or speed is easy to measure. When driving, you constantly check your speedometer to see how fast you are driving and can you speed up or should you slow down. We understand speed.

The velocity of a bullet can easily be measured by a chronograph. Reloading manuals give velocities for different weights of gunpowder. Cartridge manufacturers state the velocities of their bullets on the cartridge boxes. Many reloaders have a chronograph. We understand speed.

Physics tells us that every moving object has kenetic energy, and that kenetic energy is calculated by multiplying 1/2 of the weight of that object by it's velocity squared. We can't see the energy, we have to calculate it, and most people don't want to be bothered with doing the calculations, so they just fall back on the thing that they somewhat understand which is velocity.
 

atmat

WKR
Joined
Jun 10, 2022
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Evergreen, CO
No, it's a perfect analogy for those who say that velocity, not energy kills.

We live in a society that practically revolves around speed and velocity. How fast do you walk? How fast is the speed limit and how much can you push it and not get a speeding ticket? How fast are airplanes?

Velocity or speed is easy to measure. When driving, you constantly check your speedometer to see how fast you are driving and can you speed up or should you slow down. We understand speed.

The velocity of a bullet can easily be measured by a chronograph. Reloading manuals give velocities for different weights of gunpowder. Cartridge manufacturers state the velocities of their bullets on the cartridge boxes. Many reloaders have a chronograph. We understand speed.

Physics tells us that every moving object has kenetic energy, and that kenetic energy is calculated by multiplying 1/2 of the weight of that object by it's velocity squared. We can't see the energy, we have to calculate it, and most people don't want to be bothered with doing the calculations, so they just fall back on the thing that they somewhat understand which is velocity.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

But seriously, people are taking about velocity being the determining factor based on the projectile. No one is saying that “velocity” alone matters. Context, my guy.
 
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