The Most Overlooked Part of a Rifle Build

[SDHNTR]

I was more or less being facetious. I do not know what they test or do not test. If they did anything worthwhile in the testing department they would have answered the question by now. Nightforce prides itself on their tests and gladly show their tests.

The "circle back to it" conment was in regards to our current administration and how they avoid answering questions. It is Psaki's favorite phrase.

You're right. The only contender doing this now is Nightforce. That leaves the current market WIDE open for a smart manufacturer who's paying attention. Especially with other contenders like SWFA and the Bushnell LHRS types perpetually unavailable.

 

[Shraggs]

Pretty sure swfa does impact tests, as a percentage so not every scope, random samples I would guess. Trijcon does, but not sure exactly what the protocol is.

 

[SDHNTR]

Pretty sure swfa does impact tests, as a percentage so not every scope, random samples I would guess. Trijcon does, but not sure exactly what the protocol is.

Right, but my point is only Nightforce shows us how they do it. The others you mentioned, while I have no doubt they do it, don’t show us their process. And still, only 3 scope manufacturers do any sort of impact testing? That pathetic! They ALL should be doing this!

 

[Shraggs]

^ 1000% agree

 

[Stinky Coyote]

where's the cut off line with this impact stuff? does it really need to be able to frame a house and pull nails?

your worst case pitfalls afield would be horse rolls over on it or you land on it in the rocks above tree line from a slip/fall while it's on the pack...and who's going to trust any reasonable weight hunting set up after those events and not expect to check and re-zero if necessary? this is a hunting forum still right? are we losing perspective here and getting lost down rabbit holes? I dunno what some of y'all doing with your rifles but being as it's a firearm and what it's capable of most are handled accordingly no?, like are we not always present of mind where that rifle is and where that barrel is pointed? I'll tell ya when I'm building or fixing things in the garage I'm not running up to the gun safe every time I need a 3 lb sledge

 

[SDHNTR]

where's the cut off line with this impact stuff? does it really need to be able to frame a house and pull nails?

your worst case pitfalls afield would be horse rolls over on it or you land on it in the rocks above tree line from a slip/fall while it's on the pack...and who's going to trust any reasonable weight hunting set up after those events and not expect to check and re-zero if necessary? this is a hunting forum still right? are we losing perspective here and getting lost down rabbit holes? I dunno what some of y'all doing with your rifles but being as it's a firearm and what it's capable of most are handled accordingly no?, like are we not always present of mind where that rifle is and where that barrel is pointed? I'll tell ya when I'm building or fixing things in the garage I'm not running up to the gun safe every time I need a 3 lb sledge

Valid point. The concept of reasonableness comes into play. I've said all along I don't expect ridiculousness like shown in the Nightforce videos. But for Pete's sake, show us something reasonable. Ability to withstand reasonable drops and falls that inevitably occur with field use. Like a routine slip and fall, or a tumble over when leaned against a tree. We aren't asking it to pound spikes. Hell, just show us something, so we know you're even thinking about durability and zero retention. Instead, Tract chooses to ignore the matter entirely. Which, IMO, is the worst course of action. Their silence is deafening.

 

[ID_Matt]

where's the cut off line with this impact stuff? does it really need to be able to frame a house and pull nails?

your worst case pitfalls afield would be horse rolls over on it or you land on it in the rocks above tree line from a slip/fall while it's on the pack...and who's going to trust any reasonable weight hunting set up after those events and not expect to check and re-zero if necessary? this is a hunting forum still right? are we losing perspective here and getting lost down rabbit holes? I dunno what some of y'all doing with your rifles but being as it's a firearm and what it's capable of most are handled accordingly no?, like are we not always present of mind where that rifle is and where that barrel is pointed? I'll tell ya when I'm building or fixing things in the garage I'm not running up to the gun safe every time I need a 3 lb sledge

I think you need to read through the scope tests. Some of them lose zero after only being dropped 12" on to a mat. It isn't like they are driving nails with them and throwing them off cliffs.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

just suggesting some perspective here, hunting forum, mostly backpack/western style hunters, we like our gear and generally protect it and care for it, especially our pewpews as we sink a fair bit of coin into them lol, we run them on kifaru gunbearers, or in scabbards, we tend to find ways to carry to protect from said hazards, or add some protection of some sort to the scope area

we can still find sub 1 lb optics that work well for us and hold zero through all but the biggest of mishaps, how else would we have survived otherwise, we'd surely had many years of empty freezers

having said that it's nice to hear my accupoints might be on the tougher side lol, thanks for the warm and fuzzies lol, research subjectively seemed to bear this out before I invested anyway, couldn't find reports that were untoward or no themes of trouble of any sort, solid reputation for zero hold, tracking and otherwise reliability over and above the good reports of quality/function/image etc. just hope guys don't feel they have to have a night force to still be a bad ass hunter...if my rifle takes a hit that a night force can survive I'm guessing the last thing I'll be worried about is the scope...hows my barrel or stock, will it be safe to even shoot, how's my health at this point, am I even conscious, should I be sending a spot sos message if I am lol?

 

[Mojave]

I grew up in the Western USA and then spent the next 20 years living all over the world with the military.

We are kind of an anommally in the gun world. There are some high end custom rifles being built in Europe (not talking about Steyrs, Blaser, Sakos, Sauer, that are expensive but not custom). Companies like Heym that will build up a custom level rifle, and a few British smiths who are building custom stuff on custom actions. There is quite a bit more of this in New Zealand and Australia, and that is kind of the end of it. Canadians, South Africans and Americans are really the only ones building rifles like ours with an eye on precision or long range shooting.

There are heaps of custom engraved high end firearms coming out of Ferlach, Suhl, Liege and some other places in Europe but these are "fancy" hold your pinky out kind of guns.

So I always laugh at what a custom rifle means to someone, as we might have entirely different views to define it.

Tough detacheable $300-600 scope mounts are common in Europe. I have seen heaps of Tikka T3, Remington 700, and other inexpensive rifles in Europe with a $350-500 scope mount on them and a $1200-3500 scope.

Never seen a $4000 European rifle with a pair of Walmart blister pack mounts on it (but a lot of those are prorietary mounting systems.

Rarely ever seen a $4000 European rifle with a cheap scope. But occasionally it happens.

I have regularly seen a $4000 rifle, with a $400 mount and $4000 scope in Europe. The loaner rifle for my last European hunt was a Merkel $3200 with a Schmidt Zenith $2500 and Dentler mounts $600.

This is kind of an elitist conversation, but what is the minimum you would personally spend on a scope for a $4000 rifle.

I have several $1500 Japanese LOW scopes on $4000 rifles, with good high end mounts Spuhr and Contessa.

I am trying to save finances to move back to Alaska, and I'll probably upgrade optics a bit. Hopefully Swarovski will still make the X5 3-18 after we get moved. But if not I'll put some kind of 30mm high end scope I can dial. 34mm Scopes are too heavy for most Alaskan hunts.

 

[HaydenLane]

where's the cut off line with this impact stuff? does it really need to be able to frame a house and pull nails?

your worst case pitfalls afield would be horse rolls over on it or you land on it in the rocks above tree line from a slip/fall while it's on the pack...and who's going to trust any reasonable weight hunting set up after those events and not expect to check and re-zero if necessary? this is a hunting forum still right? are we losing perspective here and getting lost down rabbit holes? I dunno what some of y'all doing with your rifles but being as it's a firearm and what it's capable of most are handled accordingly no?, like are we not always present of mind where that rifle is and where that barrel is pointed? I'll tell ya when I'm building or fixing things in the garage I'm not running up to the gun safe every time I need a 3 lb sledge

I don’t know where the line is, but I do know someone whose sling broke when scaling rugged terrain. Personally, I’ve had a few scopes lose zero with no drops/impacts. I’ve also taken a spill attempting a path I probably should’ve avoided, it happens. I don’t need a scope to frame a house, but I need it to be a reliable as can be expected for its weight.

 

[cmahoney]

I think you need to read through the scope tests. Some of them lose zero after only being dropped 12" on to a mat. It isn't like they are driving nails with them and throwing them off cliffs.

Exactly, there seems to be a scree field everywhere I go and a small spill doesn’t leave me wondering if I can still take a shot with my NF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stinky Coyote]

oooh, I do agree with more detach mounts as repeatable and precise as Blaser system would be nice to see some development on, when I had my k95 the whole dang rig was broken down in the pack protected by everything soft, packing out meat the scope stayed in the pack and had a 5.5 lb iron sight rig in one hand that was a feather that balanced so nice under the action which was rounded for your hand, you could carry all day and not know it, I ran a Leupold 2.5-8 with custom lr duplex reticle in that one, shot really well to 575, could take the scope on and off for 3 shot groups with factory ammo at all distances and the groups were the same size as if you never took scope off and never once was zero not dead on when you put it on, one of the most confidence inspiring repeatable rifles I've owned, sub-moa with factory ammo no issue for 5 shot groups

wouldn't have to worry too much about scopes being used as as hammers if it was always tucked away in the pack like a spotting scope...now there's an idea for development in this game imo

I'll have a reasonable comfort then in my Trijicon that a scree field mishap where I'm still healthy...the scope will be too but not a chance you'll see my rifles wear anything over 1 lb so there's another development area some of these manufacturers may want to dig into and show some zero holding house framing sumbitches that weigh less than a lb and market it...rokslide wet dreams

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I don’t know where the line is, but I do know someone whose sling broke when scaling rugged terrain. Personally, I’ve had a few scopes lose zero with no drops/impacts. I’ve also taken a spill attempting a path I probably should’ve avoided, it happens. I don’t need a scope to frame a house, but I need it to be a reliable as can be expected for its weight.

well there better be a sling testing section fired up on the ole rokslide no? wonder what the test parameters would be for that...'it failed the stuck in the ditch vac truck tow test and the angle grinder test' haha

I mean if we're gonna have an 8000 dollar rig on the pack it better have a 400 dollar sling that weighs at least 8 ounces and kevlar fibre weave.

ignore me...just having a little fun with this one

 

[Kimber7man]

I'd like to see what everyone's answers are for the most overlooked part of a rifle build. Personally, I've seen far too many gun owners connect good optics to a good rifle with blister pack scope rings. What else have you folks seen that makes you shake your head?

Most overlooked part of a rifle build is the choice of gunsmith. Go cheap and you’ll lose all the money you put into it.

 

[rootacres]

Since everyone already mentioned rings.

Quality trigger gets overlooked some.

Also not so much an overlooking scenario but people not monitoring the intended application vs build. People will check every box on a 30 cal mag and end up with a 15lb mountain rifle. Others will strip down the same 30 cal mag and end up with a 6lb mountain rifle. Both could present problems in the field.

 

[Sled]

Valid point. The concept of reasonableness comes into play. I've said all along I don't expect ridiculousness like shown in the Nightforce videos. But for Pete's sake, show us something reasonable. Ability to withstand reasonable drops and falls that inevitably occur with field use. Like a routine slip and fall, or a tumble over when leaned against a tree. We aren't asking it to pound spikes. Hell, just show us something, so we know you're even thinking about durability and zero retention. Instead, Tract chooses to ignore the matter entirely. Which, IMO, is the worst course of action. Their silence is deafening.

Agreed. I was 100% set on a Toric but changed my mind due to the lack of comment on this topic. I just couldn't get over it. I like the company and love their products but I have to have trust in the fact that they are at least thinking of or caring about the basics. Now, there's a new LRHS in the mail.

@JW@TRACT let us know if you ever make headway in this department. I'd sure like try one out in the future.

 

[SDHNTR]

Agreed. I was 100% set on a Toric but changed my mind due to the lack of comment on this topic. I just couldn't get over it. I like the company and love their products but I have to have trust in the fact that they are at least thinking of or caring about the basics. Now, there's a new LRHS in the mail.

@JW@TRACT let us know if you ever make headway in this department. I'd sure like try one out in the future.

That’s really too bad. And unnecessary. I’d buy at least 2 Tracts immediately upon the company’s simple addressing of this matter in a satisfactory way.

 

[ElkPRC]

I hate to see a guy want to spend $5000 on a rifle that he will only shoot a max of 300 yards.

I agree to this whole heartedly. I am in the process of doing a custom gun and debating on which action to use, but I have a Barlein carbon barrel with an AG composite stock, top notch! But point being is I am a big fan of just a Savage 110. they are good quality rifles with a good chamber and barrel. while they are not the most refined thing in the world and the stocks aren't the best for the money you really can't beat them.

So, If I can get a great Savage for 700 dollars or even a nice Bergara for 900 and it shoot out to 400-500 yards perfectly fine to hit a deer or elk everytime why the hell would I spend 4k on a custom rifle to sit in a tree stand and shoot 150 yards. Truly isn't a reason.

 

[SDHNTR]

I agree to this whole heartedly. I am in the process of doing a custom gun and debating on which action to use, but I have a Barlein carbon barrel with an AG composite stock, top notch! But point being is I am a big fan of just a Savage 110. they are good quality rifles with a good chamber and barrel. while they are not the most refined thing in the world and the stocks aren't the best for the money you really can't beat them.

So, If I can get a great Savage for 700 dollars or even a nice Bergara for 900 and it shoot out to 400-500 yards perfectly fine to hit a deer or elk everytime why the hell would I spend 4k on a custom rifle to sit in a tree stand and shoot 150 yards. Truly isn't a reason.

Plenty of reasons! I have a couple custom guns that will never shoot over 300 yards. Why is there a correlation to money spent or custom builds and distance of shooting? That’s just silly. Lots of people have guns built that have nothing to do with long range. Fine wood, special configurations that are meaningful to them, special cartridges, etc. there’s a ton of reasons to build guns that have nothing to do with distance. Heck, why do guys have custom pistols built? I had these custom guns built because there’s nothing similar made in factory guns and I wanted them just the way I wanted them. No one needs any reason other than that!

People buy custom blue suits too. Even though there’s plenty of blue suits on the rack. People like stuff unique to them.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Truly isn't a reason.

Cuz 'Merica