The morality of poaching

[kwackkillncrew]

If lost in the wilderness and starving I'd kill whatever I could. But saying my family is starving while poaching a deer with an expensive rifle/bow is a stretch.

so one would have to sell his bow for a cheap bow. use the left over money for food. run out of food then sell the cheap bow for a knife. use left over money for food. then find a stick widdle a spear with the knife. sell the knife for some money for food. then hike out and acquire a deer for food.

 

[Wvroach]

i don't think this discussion will ever have anything useful come from it on the internet, lots of moving parts...

you have one person trying to depict a scenario where killing a deer out of season/without a tag is ok... then you have the drama queens that completely take replies out of context and have a burst of tourettes and gets their dog's attention pounding computer keys aggressively, then you have folks who will never see perspective from either side, because they put their own perspective on someone else's depiction, and everything in between, haha....

some will go back to the kifaru thread because they are in a bad mood now and need to vent in another thread.... i'm not so sure about the general discussion sub forum

damn covid boosters have everyone on edge

we all have our own moral compass and will do or not do whatever we think is moral... they will never be universal, so i don't want to argue about it.

i know in general, those on the highest horses usually get bucked off in real life... thank goodness for the internet!

I think having a civil discussion with one another can have a positive effect. At least for those of us willing to hear out opposing views. As for trying to depict something, I was simply stating personal experience and some of what I see local to me.

I think many folks are detached from how their neighbors actually live day to day. I myself was guilty of this. I don't like using a broad brush to paint everyone as malevolent who poaches I know some are not and some truly do it to provide for their families, not knowing the circumstances of each I don't necessarily agree with public defamation of someones name or reputation.

I think a part of this is most certainly impacted because of my upbringing and the other portion is purely due to our geographic location. Much the same as I can't retell the story of someone who grew up in the projects and had those obstacles to get through. Every walk of life weather you were born with a silver spoon or in a dirt floor cabin has its own set of challenges and I enjoy listening and talking to people who have differing opinions.

I know at least a few on here feel the same.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

So to some folks…

It’s ok to poach to protect your pride.

But how many of these “enlightened” people also cheered when AOC says retail theft is due to hunger? How many of these “enlightened” people are also strong proponents of those doing the retail theft, including that guy that stole all of those steaks?

My guess is most of these “enlightened” people rolled their eyes at AOC and called the steak thief an inappropriate name.

 

[hh76]

I can overlook someone taking an animal as a last resort to feed the family, but I have a hard time coming up with scenarios where it would ever get to that.

If you've designed your life with the idea of poaching for feed, that does not count. A friend was telling me about his cousin in northern WI who shoots a deer or two each year to get by. He claims that jobs and money are tough to come by in that area, and he needs the meat. I argued that he is choosing to live there, so he can't use it as an excuse.

On a related note, the book "Game Warden Centurion" is an interesting read. A few examples of the conflict between wardens and hungry people during the depression.

 

[Wvroach]

So to some folks…

It’s ok to poach to protect your pride.

But how many of these “enlightened” people also cheered when AOC says retail theft is due to hunger? How many of these “enlightened” people are also strong proponents of those doing the retail theft, including that guy that stole all of those steaks?

My guess is most of these “enlightened” people rolled their eyes at AOC and called the steak thief an inappropriate name.

You are comparing theft to poaching, not the same at all. No one owns the game, they are able to be hunted, it is a matter of when and quantity that's in question. The other is someone's personal property. I have yet to see anyone suggest it is ok to steal.

 

[pk_]

Is it immoral to break the speed limit in an emergency?

 

[KurtR]

Is it immoral to break the speed limit in an emergency?

if you drive the speed limit your immoral

 

[bsnedeker]

Is it immoral to break the speed limit in an emergency?

Poaching is the same as a speeding ticket....Bowmar, is that you????

 

[Pony Soldier]

I've lost two horses and a year's flock of turkeys to cats. I've paid my rent.

 

[HaydenLane]

You are comparing theft to poaching, not the same at all. No one owns the game, they are able to be hunted, it is a matter of when and quantity that's in question. The other is someone's personal property. I have yet to see anyone suggest it is ok to steal.

Legally, wildlife is owned by the state. Poaching absolutely is stealing from the state and the residents those animals are managed for the benefit of.

 

[Wvroach]

Legally, wildlife is owned by the state. Poaching absolutely is stealing from the state and the residents those animals are managed for the benefit of.

That's not true. The state is the trustee or steward but they are owned by the people as a collective.

I feel like this entire conversation has been derailed by people trying to argue about something that no one has been supportive of.

No one here is saying you should shoot deer for the hell of it or that you should go to someone else's property and trespass.. absolutely no one has said that is ok and it is facetious to say that is the argument.

 

[Antarctica]

OP - in the case you described, 100% not poaching. Its surviving.

 

[CoStick]

People steal and commit crimes to provide for their families all the time.

 

[87TT]

The people are the State. And the State DOES own the wildlife in it's borders. Poaching IS stealing plain and simple. If you have to steal to eat, then that is a choice. The game has a value. Just check and see what they charge you for an illegally killed animal. Justify it if you must to feel better, but it is still theft or it wouldn't be a crime.

 

[Billy Goat]

I'm not completely one way or another on this. I have traveled around a fair amount, and can tell you there's few places like some areas of the Appalachia, reservations, except they have more money pumped into them.


There's people I know from WVa that had no idea that deer hunting was anything other than driving in a vehicle and spot lightning with a .22. No beer involved, just it was as common as a trip to the store. I guess the point can be made that they had money for fuel, but chit, in the late 90's it was still under a dollar and protein from the grocery store was expensive and a way further drive.


It's a cultural thing, not saying it makes it right, but when it's how you are brought up, how do you know it's wrong?

 

[Wvroach]

The people are the State. And the State DOES own the wildlife in it's borders. Poaching IS stealing plain and simple. If you have to steal to eat, then that is a choice. The game has a value. Just check and see what they charge you for an illegally killed animal. Justify it if you must to feel better, but it is still theft or it wouldn't be a crime.

No, the State is the elected body of government in this situation the trustee. The people are are the constituents or benefactors of the trustee.

The trustee is put in place to regulate distribution of game owned by the people as a whole. Very important to make that distinction otherwise you are saying the state would own a lot more than just game...

 

[CoStick]

If it happens in the woods or cities, it is the same thing.

 

[cnelk]

Waaay back in the day in north woods (60s), I know many families that took deer to feed themselves during hard times.

But the only caveat was it had to be a month that ended in ‘R’.

I also know that the deer quickly went into canning jars.

Rarely do you hear about a needy person getting popped for poaching.

It’s usually the guy that has something to prove.

 

[roadrunner]

There's the letter of the law and then there's the spirit of the law.

If you wrestle with the decision but feel good about weeks and years later, you obviously made the right choice.

 

[pk_]

Poaching is the same as a speeding ticket....Bowmar, is that you????

That wasn’t the question, nor was it my statement. It was simply a question I thought may force the reader to think about the discussion from a different angle. Clearly a miss in your case.

But while on the subject, I know folks who got less of a fine for killing deer illegally than what I have gotten in the past for speeding tickets. So I can’t really say one way or the other.

Laws are laws and getting caught breaking them often puts you at the mercy and discretion of the LEO in that situation.

The Bowmar comment wasn’t appreciated.