The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[NVUplandHunter]

Thoughtful response. But as far as what you said about repenting before or after life doesn’t the Bible make it clear you must repent prior to death.

We face our judgement at death immediately because God knows our hearts better than we do. The Bible is the word of God, not God though. God has the final say in the matter, so I think it’s totally possible for someone to be given a chance after death for repenting and believing. God is capable of anything and all so I’m not going to put restraints on how He will bring into His home.

Kinda like the thief on the cross that at his moment of death told Jesus he knew who he was and Jesus told the thief he would be in paradise with Him. Talk about a last second!

So anyhow, I don’t know what God will do. I hope when I die I’ve lived a virtuous enough life to make it through the gates and in the end I really truly want that for everyone. Not this frilly preach of salvation lots of people do, but eternal happiness and peace for all in their souls. I long for that myself and I want sort of thing for everyone. That’s why I share the good news.

 

[Beagle1]

So you’re saying there’s a part of you that would believe in Jesus if you were presented with undeniable proof? Besides the witness accounts of others on here, scientific evidence like Eucharist miracles, documented apparitions like that of Fatima, miracles and events that cannot be explained, books about people having near death experiences with no Christian knowledge then talk about meeting Jesus or others having just the opposite experience of being dragged into the darkness. The one and only book that is the best selling book of all time. 11 different Roman rulers that tried to destroy Christianity not to mention the Soviet Union trying to destroy the church for over 100 years and yet here we are still standing giving glory to God for every breathe we take.

If you’re truly open to changing your views, Pray. Ask God to reveal Himself to you in such a personal way that there is absolutely no doubt it’s Him. But then you have to be open to his answers and more time than not, it’s not what you wanted or expected. It might not happen tonight, tomorrow, next week or this winter. But it will happen.

Matthew 7:7-8 “Knock, and the door will be opened”.

You’re a well spoken and respectful man. I hope you take to heart your own statement.

The answer to your second paragraph is found in the parable of the workers in the vineyard. Matthew 20: 1-16 it tells the story of a landowner who hires laborers at different times of the day, promising each group the same wage at the end of the day. I hope you dust off your bible and give it a read.

This is strictly my thought, but there’s a reason you’re hanging around this thread. I think He’s calling you back to Him. Prompting you to seek the truth deeper than you ever have before. Giving you resources through conversations in this thread to seek a deeper meaning. He’s talking to you through others, don’t ignore it.

Luke 15:7 In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

Peace be with you man.

Another thoughtful response. Lots of my prior posts discuss why your evidence simply doesn’t resonate with me like it does with you. Resonance is not evenly distributed. In religion often what is taken as proof simply functions as confirmation of something the believer already strongly subjectively feels.

Say you, I and another person look at a beautiful sunset. You see that as confirmation of God. I see it as the beauty of the natural world. The other person simply sees it as the process of the sun going down just like any other day. We are seeing through different interpretive lenses. The other person’s view doesn’t devalue your faith or the beauty I feel.

So the believer’s conviction may be real and sincere, but its compelling power may be internal rather than universal.

And for non-believers, a lack of resonance doesn’t mean a sign of hardness or rebellion, it is simply that the proof of a believer does not move him.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Yes I understand your position.

I really don’t think you do.

 

[JGRaider]

Another thoughtful response. Lots of my prior posts discuss why your evidence simply doesn’t resonate with me like it does with you. Resonance is not evenly distributed. In religion often what is taken as proof simply functions as confirmation of something the believer already strongly subjectively feels.

Say you, I and another person look at a beautiful sunset. You see that as confirmation of God. I see it as the beauty of the natural world. The other person simply sees it as the process of the sun going down just like any other day. We are seeing through different interpretive lenses. The other person’s view doesn’t devalue your faith or the beauty I feel.

So the believer’s conviction may be real and sincere, but its compelling power may be internal rather than universal.

And for non-believers, a lack of resonance doesn’t mean a sign of hardness or rebellion, it is simply that the proof of a believer does not move him.

So you honestly believe all of that natural beauty happened by pure circumstance? It takes a whole lot of faith to believe that.....

Psalm 19
1The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.

2Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.

3Without speech or language,
without a sound to be heard,

4their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
In the heavens He has pitched a tent for the sun.

 

[Beagle1]

So you honestly believe all of that natural beauty happened by pure circumstance? It takes a whole lot of faith to believe that.....

Psalm 19
1The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.

2Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.

3Without speech or language,
without a sound to be heard,

4their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
In the heavens He has pitched a tent for the sun.

Yes.

 

[Beagle1]

I really don’t think you do.

I understand it. I don’t feel it.

 

[KenLee]

Beagle1 post count in this thread = 149
Replies to him in this thread = 135

Total percentage is over 25% of thread, or about 14 full pages of babble

Well unlike many who spew endless loyalty opinions on Leupolds, Tikkas and SWFA, Beagle1 is actually knowledgeable and respectful in his posts.

 

[Shortschaf]

We
Well unlike many who spew endless loyalty opinions on Leupolds, Tikkas and SWFA, Beagle1 is actually knowledgeable and respectful in his posts.

Respectful, yes
Knowledgeable? Contrarians are all knowledgeable, just ask them

Maybe another 250 back and forth posts will result in meaningful conversation, that is carefully considered by both sides, and isn't endlessly circular

 

[dylanvb]

“For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13‬:‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[dylanvb]

“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.””
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Wisdom and knowledge are a gift from God. I am glad He has revealed so much to me. I was blind but now I see.

 

[NVUplandHunter]

Gospel of John chapter 20 vs 24-29

24Thomas, called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25So the other disciples said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger into the nailmarks and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”o
26Now a week later his disciples were again inside and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.”p
27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe.”
28* q Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29* Jesus said to him, “Have you come to believe because you have seen me?r Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”

 

[JackButler]

If you lived a good life and followed all the things you listed and when you die, you find yourself at the feet of Jesus and in Him recognizing you have a good heart offers you redemption and the proof you were wanting, seeing Him. Would you change your stance and believe and enter heaven?

No judgement, just a question that popped into my head after reading what you said. I’ve kinda wondered about that from time to time with people who are good people but don’t follow Christ.

What about all the people that were raised in some other religion? If all you know from birth is Islam or Buddhism, and everyone you know is that religion, what kind of god would hold it against you for not following Christ?

 

[NVUplandHunter]

What about all the people that were raised in some other religion? If all you know from birth is Islam or Buddhism, and everyone you know is that religion, what kind of god would hold it against you for not following Christ?

That’s a good question and one only God can answer. That’s been covered here multiple times. God decides who enters His house, not me.

 

[416bull]

Roman's 10:13 KJV

"For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved"

That there explains it all and without excepting Jesus Christ as your savior, morals, good deeds , and a fear of God does nothing for you!

 

[eddielasvegas]

That’s a good question and one only God can answer. That’s been covered here multiple times. God decides who enters His house, not me.

Ricky answered this quite well. Video HERE.

For the sake of your eternal life @NVUplandHunter , I hope you have picked the right god.


Eddie

 

[Yoder]

What about all the people that were raised in some other religion? If all you know from birth is Islam or Buddhism, and everyone you know is that religion, what kind of god would hold it against you for not following Christ?

This has been answered multiple times. I believe God has a path for them, if they are deserving. God holds us more accountable, the more we know. I know God is just and it would not be just to punish those who don't know Jesus. I believe there is scripture to back this, but I would have to do some research.

 

[JackButler]

This has been answered multiple times. I believe God has a path for them, if they are deserving. God holds us more accountable, the more we know. I know God is just and it would not be just to punish those who don't know Jesus. I believe there is scripture to back this, but I would have to do some research.

It definitely hasn’t been answered. A couple mortals have weighed in with their opinions/beliefs on something that is currently unknowable with the evidence that exists. I’m not saying these folks are wrong, it’s possible they’re right. Also, funny that a lot of people’s proof is the Bible itself, which is a circular argument.

 

[Jason Snyder]

“Dear brothers and sisters, when troubles of any kind come your way, consider it an opportunity for great joy. For you know that when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow. So let it grow, for when your endurance is fully developed, you will be perfect and complete, needing nothing.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1‬:‭2‬-‭4‬ ‭NLT‬‬

 

[Yoder]

It definitely hasn’t been answered. A couple mortals have weighed in with their opinions/beliefs on something that is currently unknowable with the evidence that exists. I’m not saying these folks are wrong, it’s possible they’re right. Also, funny that a lot of people’s proof is the Bible itself, which is a circular argument.

Nobody knows but God, but in my mind, it's pretty simple. God is good. He is the only one who is good. He has perfect justice. If you believe in God, that seems like the first thing you should believe as the core value of God. I can't see how it would be just for someone who has no idea who Jesus is, to earn hell for that. God never sends anyone to hell, he saves us from it. People go to hell for deciding they don't need the one true God in their life. Believing in the wrong God to me, is still putting God first, you are just ignorant of Jesus. I think the problem comes when you know Jesus and reject him for a false God. Many Christians would disagree with this, but I think it makes sense.

Your question was my biggest stumbling block to believe in Jesus. What I've written above is how I rectified what I originally believed to be hypocrisy or inconsistency in the scriptures. After learning more, I think scripture also supports this.

There is no science to prove this. You either believe and have faith, or you can disregard it all as fairytales and nonsense. I'm not trying to convince you; this is just what I believe.

 

[socoalt]

dude you said you were bowing out of the discussion like 2 pages ago... yet here you are.. still stirring the pot.