The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

Both sides of this have been discussed before at length in prior posts.
There's only one side. There is historical and archeological evidence of places and people mentioned in the Bible. I don't see how that can be argued. Doubting whether or not Jesus is God, the miracles, anything "supernatural" I totally understand.
 
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Do you believe Alexander the Great was real? His history was written hundreds of years after he died. The New Testament was written with the lifespan of people who actually knew Jesus but that is disregarded. I understand if you don't believe Jesusis God, but the Bible is backed by archeology and history. Especially the New Testament.
Once again this has been discussed on both sides in prior posts. Do I question Alexander the Great lived based on the historical record - no. Would I question he rose from the dead because his supporters back then claimed it - yes.
 
Do not be led astray:
“Bad company corrupts good morals.”
1 Corinthians 15:33
I like debate. I think it's been pretty respectful, and it makes it interesting. Nothing anyone can say will make me question my faith. It just makes me look harder for answers. I've learned a lot from this thread. It would be kind of boring without Beagle and others who don't believe. I have no hard feeling for anyone who posted.
 
in one post you totally contradict yourself....you state you use logic and critical thinking and then in your very next post you are arguing form a pure emotional non-logical stand point.

Listen, I am sorry you have had pain in your life, but guess what, we all have. No one knows the pain of being human better than Jesus. His life was all about the suffering humans can endure, from the emotional side all the way to the physical side. Jesus showed us there is a way to endure and finish the race strong. You are looking at things from a very selfish standpoint. I can ask did your God loving grandmother actually suffer or was she enduring the finality of her race? What seems like suffering for one person may in fact be a feat of strength for another.
Yes God killed off many different people groups in the Bible, but every time He did it because that people group were either tempting the chosen people away from Him, or the people group was causing a rift in the chosen people. The good news of the Bible is we are all the chosen people. We all have temptations that try to take our eyes away from God. And he is there, fighting on our behalf to destroy temptations and evil. I wish everyone could see that, but some do not have eyes to see it.

Using emotions to prove God doesn't exist is kind of illogical, If there is no God, then there is only nature. Yet, nature doesn't suffer. Nature doesn't consider anything good or evil. Nature is just nature. IF God doesn't exist, how is it that you consider anything suffering or evil? What is the standard by which you compare anything to make those claims. Please explain.
Wrong , God killed the sons and daughters of the men he took umbrage with . Killed innocent kids , to make a point ?
And I made the point of my grandmother as a observation , because if god loved my grandmother half as much as she loved him he would never let her suffer .
A loving god would show compassion .
The very title of this thread is about fearing a god , to receive wisdom ?
I appreciate your gesture of compassion , but trust me , when it comes to trying to prove the existence of God , I am very unemotional .
Lead by example , and killing those you have a disagreement with is a piss poor example of how to live a loving and fulfilled life.
 
I like debate. I think it's been pretty respectful, and it makes it interesting. Nothing anyone can say will make me question my faith. It just makes me look harder for answers. I've learned a lot from this thread. It would be kind of boring without Beagle and others who don't believe. I have no hard feeling for anyone who posted.
Ummm, I just posted a Bible verse. It's got nothing to do with anything other than a Bible verse, on a thread for Bible verses. Verses that inspire me and keep my mind in the right spot I feel like might help others too I like to share, I've walked away from the other banter.
 
Do you believe Alexander the Great was real? His history was written hundreds of years after he died. The New Testament was written with the lifespan of people who actually knew Jesus but that is disregarded. I understand if you don't believe Jesusis God, but the Bible is backed by archeology and history. Especially the New Testament.
Sure , it's easy to get the facts right in an edit after the facts , LOL . Read the novel Flight of the Falcon , it's about a fictional family set in the 1860's and follows the linage through the birth of the nation Rhodesia and it's collapse .
It's a wonderful story , full of real events that actually took place , all while telling a fictional story , just like the bible .
 
Ummm, I just posted a Bible verse. It's got nothing to do with anything other than a Bible verse, on a thread for Bible verses. Verses that inspire me and keep my mind in the right spot I feel like might help others too I like to share, I've walked away from the other banter.
Sorry, I read way too much into that.
 
The one thing that has with stood scrutiny for 2 centuries is the resurrection. That is the truth. Try for yourself to disprove it. Take as long as you want/need to find the evidence. Prove to the world that Jesus did not rise as it is written. Study it and find facts that it is not true.

Don’t mistake our responses to you as being frustrated. Many of us may at one point been in your shoes where we didn’t believe and had the same questions, comments, and beliefs that you are posting here.

Know this, your argument is not going to raise any doubt in our minds or change our beliefs. At this point your involvement in this thread rivals that of the op and some of the believers who have posted here, so you’re either searching and are curious about God or your trolling. If you’re searching feel free to pm me and I’ll answer all the questions that I am able to. If your trolling well…
Actually , the resurrection's is a great example of the trouble with the bible . Why was there four different versions of the event and why did it get changed to the version accepted as fact now ?
Whose version was right ? And why would the others lie ? And if they would lie about that , what else have they lied about ?
The bible has zero answers , and that is it secret , it means what ever you want it to , pick a verse and hold onto it , because it makes you feel good .
 
Wrong , God killed the sons and daughters of the men he took umbrage with . Killed innocent kids , to make a point ?
And I made the point of my grandmother as a observation , because if god loved my grandmother half as much as she loved him he would never let her suffer .
A loving god would show compassion .
The very title of this thread is about fearing a god , to receive wisdom ?
I appreciate your gesture of compassion , but trust me , when it comes to trying to prove the existence of God , I am very unemotional .
Lead by example , and killing those you have a disagreement with is a piss poor example of how to live a loving and fulfilled life.
you're in pain and looking for a place to land that pain. God is the one and only who can embrace and that and heal it. i know thats not what you want to hear, but its true.
God loved your grandmother an undefined amount more than a human is even capable of loving. We do not know why God does what he does. but if we get mad at Him for it, we will never find out.

Maybe God allowed this suffering to happen to use your grandmother as an example to those around her. That even in a horrible situation, God can be a light i the dark. Have you considered what things may have been like for her if she didnt have God to turn to? Our cross to bare can be an answer for others. I hope one day to have the strong faith of your grandmother. Even in the darkest of times, she didnt turn her back on the Lord.

I lost my grandpa a few weeks ago. Cancer all over his body and mostly in his gut. Vacuum tube going from his nose to his stomach to suck the pints of blood out. He never stopped praying through his pain an suffering. He never lost his faith. He would sit with the priest at the VA and talk about angels and how important it is to pray. His faith gave him certainty in an uncertain time. His faith gave him comfort during the time he was dying. His faith helped him through it.

My grandmother is the most faithful person ive ever met. my heart cries for her when i think about the pain she must be going through. She leans into Jesus to help her with that pain. He holds her and comforts her in it.

The point im making is that people's faith in God might be the only good thing they have going on in their lives. God uses that faith as an example to others. that does not mean that God is going to make someone suffer on purpose.
 
you're in pain and looking for a place to land that pain. God is the one and only who can embrace and that and heal it. i know thats not what you want to hear, but its true.
God loved your grandmother an undefined amount more than a human is even capable of loving. We do not know why God does what he does. but if we get mad at Him for it, we will never find out.

Maybe God allowed this suffering to happen to use your grandmother as an example to those around her. That even in a horrible situation, God can be a light i the dark. Have you considered what things may have been like for her if she didnt have God to turn to? Our cross to bare can be an answer for others. I hope one day to have the strong faith of your grandmother. Even in the darkest of times, she didnt turn her back on the Lord.

I lost my grandpa a few weeks ago. Cancer all over his body and mostly in his gut. Vacuum tube going from his nose to his stomach to suck the pints of blood out. He never stopped praying through his pain an suffering. He never lost his faith. He would sit with the priest at the VA and talk about angels and how important it is to pray. His faith gave him certainty in an uncertain time. His faith gave him comfort during the time he was dying. His faith helped him through it.

My grandmother is the most faithful person ive ever met. my heart cries for her when i think about the pain she must be going through. She leans into Jesus to help her with that pain. He holds her and comforts her in it.

The point im making is that people's faith in God might be the only good thing they have going on in their lives. God uses that faith as an example to others. that does not mean that God is going to make someone suffer on purpose.
Again , while I appreciate your thoughts and gesture , you are still dead wrong . You assume things and then offer what you think is compassion , but I'm as right as rain . No need to worry about my pain .
And before you assume again , I was raised in the church , believed until I started researching the past .
I wanted to be a believer , trust me , but the facts are the facts .
Emotion has nothing to do with it .
 
Again , while I appreciate your thoughts and gesture , you are still dead wrong . You assume things and then offer what you think is compassion , but I'm as right as rain . No need to worry about my pain .
And before you assume again , I was raised in the church , believed until I started researching the past .
I wanted to be a believer , trust me , but the facts are the facts .
Emotion has nothing to do with it .
alright that fine, but quit lying to yourself. you're not right as the rain and if you were you wouldnt lash out at people for 1. and 2 you wouldnt have this very hardened heart. you wont even accept someone offering condolences for you loss or an olive branch in being in the same boat.

you previous comment was full of emotion and pain about your grandma. you may not believe that or think it, but the pain is written all over. was just trying to help. Sorry.
 
Still waiting for your facts to disprove God exists. Waiting......


I am sorry, that is sarcastic and not presented in good faith. While I know I will be waiting a long time for such facts that God doesn't exist, using God as reasons for His non-existence is seemingly illogical.

I am happy to discuss logic and critical thinking, I believe I possess the type of mind that can be logical and think. but I will also call out someone claiming to have logic and not using any of it to make an argument. Just because you say you use facts and logic bears no similarity to the actual argument you are making. You are still arguing in emotions. Why didn't you answer my first set of questions? I will repeat them for you....

If there is no God, and there is only nature, why do you talk about suffering and pain, or any other emotional thing, since nature has neither suffering or pain nor emotion, it is only nature? Where do you come up with the basis for good vs evil and how can you claim that people being killed was either good or bad if there is no basis for such claims and only nature (survival of the fittest right?). To talk of your grandmothers suffering as if it was a bad thing, how can you make that claim that it was bad when death is a certainty for everyone and nature doesn't discriminate between its path of things?
 
I am mostly learning the reasons for each individual believer’s faith. As I mentioned in a prior post it looks to be mostly subjective faith and the Bible. Other than faith I do not consider pointing out why I disagree with some of their reasons unfair. If you are a believer that may be jarring. Yes I constantly question lots of things. It works for me. I have no control over how people react here but I think I have been respectful and civil.

As I have said before, I do not question anyone’s subjective faith. I know lots of happy Christians and lots of happy non Christians. It is just jarring to me billions of those people are wrong. Think about that, century after century. And yes that has been covered in lots of other posts before.
 
Wrong , God killed the sons and daughters of the men he took umbrage with . Killed innocent kids , to make a point ?
And I made the point of my grandmother as a observation , because if god loved my grandmother half as much as she loved him he would never let her suffer .
A loving god would show compassion .
The very title of this thread is about fearing a god , to receive wisdom ?
I appreciate your gesture of compassion , but trust me , when it comes to trying to prove the existence of God , I am very unemotional .
Lead by example , and killing those you have a disagreement with is a piss poor example of how to live a loving and fulfilled life.
He killed people who were worshipping Satan, sacrificing their children by heating up an alter red hot and setting a newborn on it until they burned to death. He warned them about 100x to stop then realized he had to kill them all to stop this horrific behavior. Why did he kill the infants along with everyone else? I don't know. Maybe they would grow up and learn the ways of their fathers. No group of people in the Bible was ever completely destroyed either. You always hear of the same people who were "destroyed" in later times. I don't completely understand this either. It sounds barbaric to me too. I can't justify all of the behavior, but I do believe God is just. Maybe I'll find out why some day.

This world is ruled by Lucifer not God. The Bible is very clear about that. All of our suffering has been brought on us by us. God didn't make your grandmother or mine suffer in a nursing home. Our actions as human beings and Satan did. My grandmother ate garbage food her entire life and never took care of herself. That's why she died from congestive heart failure and dementia. Why do babies get cancer? Could be from us polluting the Earth or incest 1,000 years ago causing a gene mutation who knows. I believe that the short time we spend on this Earth is completely insignificant. Whatever we suffer here pales in comparison to the suffering we would endure in hell. Belief in God comforts us in our suffering. One of the last things my grandmother said was now I get to be with Jesus. She was at peace. God was with her in her suffering, I don't believe he caused it.

I understand if you think this is nonsense, but I just wanted to try to give you a different perspective. Sorry about your grandmother. I was really close with mine. She pretty much raised me.
 
I am mostly learning the reasons for each individual believer’s faith. As I mentioned in a prior post it looks to be mostly subjective faith and the Bible. Other than faith I do not consider pointing out why I disagree with some of their reasons unfair. If you are a believer that may be jarring. Yes I constantly question lots of things. It works for me. I have no control over how people react here but I think I have been respectful and civil.

As I have said before, I do not question anyone’s subjective faith. I know lots of happy Christians and lots of happy non Christians. It is just jarring to me billions of those people are wrong. Think about that, century after century. And yes that has been covered in lots of other posts before.
Billions of people are correct and the other billions are wrong. Until the day comes that we find out who was right and wrong, can we agree to live and let live? we both think we are right in our own positions that are contradictory. at some point we all have to agree to disagree, im ready for that.

I'm happy to help anyone get closer to God if they want that. and im happy to let them be if they dont.
 
Actually , the resurrection's is a great example of the trouble with the bible . Why was there four different versions of the event and why did it get changed to the version accepted as fact now ?
Whose version was right ? And why would the others lie ? And if they would lie about that , what else have they lied about ?
The bible has zero answers , and that is it secret , it means what ever you want it to , pick a verse and hold onto it , because it makes you feel good .
Easy short answer is because the gospels were written years after the event. By different people who had different perspectives of the same event. Small details are different or left out but the whole of the event is the same.

A simple example is if 4 people witness a robbery in broad daylight all of them can agree that the suspect robbed the victim but they may all have a slightly different description of the clothes the perp was wearing, what hand he was holding the gun/knife in etc. if all the witness accounts are identical in every small detail then it looks like they all conspired to get their story straight.

It’s been accepted that the small details are not as important as the main ones. They do not prove that the resurrection did not happen they only prove human error.

I think that it is a cool detail because it allows for the event to be talked about and scrutinized.
 
alright that fine, but quit lying to yourself. you're not right as the rain and if you were you wouldnt lash out at people for 1. and 2 you wouldnt have this very hardened heart. you wont even accept someone offering condolences for you loss or an olive branch in being in the same boat.

you previous comment was full of emotion and pain about your grandma. you may not believe that or think it, but the pain is written all over. was just trying to help. Sorry.
Um , I believe I did say I appreciate your thoughts and gesture , but you spin it how ever you want .
Olive branch ? Why would you offer an olive branch ? Are we at war ? Were we at war ?
Why would I need an olive branch from you ?
Because you think you're superior to me , and I'm flawed because my opinion differs from yours ?
Your "offer" of an olive branch was for you , not me , but you won't see it .

Also , you mention a "hardened heart" , that is funny to me because the heart is just a muscle , it's only function is to pump blood . Not make decisions or dictate beliefs , but you assign magical functions to the heart , why?
 
Easy short answer is because the gospels were written years after the event. By different people who had different perspectives of the same event. Small details are different or left out but the whole of the event is the same.

A simple example is if 4 people witness a robbery in broad daylight all of them can agree that the suspect robbed the victim but they may all have a slightly different description of the clothes the perp was wearing, what hand he was holding the gun/knife in etc. if all the witness accounts are identical in every small detail then it looks like they all conspired to get their story straight.

It’s been accepted that the small details are not as important as the main ones. They do not prove that the resurrection did not happen they only prove human error.

I think that it is a cool detail because it allows for the event to be talked about and scrutinized.
Great point ! So every mention of god in the bible could be wrong ? Whoever wrote down the mention of a god could be lying ? Or just wrong ?
Say it ain't so .....
 
Um , I believe I did say I appreciate your thoughts and gesture , but you spin it how ever you want .
Olive branch ? Why would you offer an olive branch ? Are we at war ? Were we at war ?
Why would I need an olive branch from you ?
Because you think you're superior to me , and I'm flawed because my opinion differs from yours ?
Your "offer" of an olive branch was for you , not me , but you won't see it .

Also , you mention a "hardened heart" , that is funny to me because the heart is just a muscle , it's only function is to pump blood . Not make decisions or dictate beliefs , but you assign magical functions to the heart , why?
"While i appreciate your thoughts and gestures, you're dead wrong" sounds really appreciative....

you're a rather pissed off person. i didnt say anything that you're describing and you're lashing out again.

the way you conduct yourself is flawed. look at yourself? making assumptions and lashing out at those that are just trying to be kind and help you or at least try to engage peacefully. you clearly dont have the same thought in mind.

I dont feel or think im superior than you or anyone else. thats too much work and time for me to think about. but if you want to think thats my motive i couldnt care any less. you do you boo.

a hardened heart is a figure of speech and you know that. you just want to be angry and fight with people. have fun with that.
 
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