The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[eddielasvegas]

@eddielasvegas i see what you are sending out now. I was like “what is he saying here?” Lol.

What is a jar of godly? Not familiar with that term. What is it you are looking for in that jar?

Being born means being created, and the belief that when created we are we are given a soul. If we are never created and just always have been, then we don’t have souls, just a being…its semantics for someone who doesnt believe in a soul or a God, but it is a major difference for someone who does believe in those things.

I have no idea what a jar of godly is (really a poor example of evidence it seems), but I'm not claiming god exists. The burden of proof is on you, in this case, since that is your claim.

So being born means being created (so a definitive starting place if you will), but death (so a definitive ending place) is not really dead? Okay, but that seems contradictory since one could draw the logical conclusion that they go hand-in-hand.


Eddie

 

[go_deep]

@go_deep I just knew we'd get to a point in this thread where we agreed on something.


Eddie

@eddielasvegas all be it a small thing, and not the thing I'd prefer we agreed on, I'm a glass half full guy and will take it.

Have a great night.

 

[eddielasvegas]

@eddielasvegas all be it a small thing, and not the thing is prefer we agreed on, I'm a glass half full guy and will take it.

Have a great night.

Even the longest journey begins with the first step.

And you do the same.


Eddie

 

[go_deep]

They shouted again, “Crucify him.”
Pilate said to them, “Why? What evil has he done?” They only shouted the louder, “Crucify him.”
So Pilate, wishing to satisfy the crowd, released Barabbas to them and, after he had Jesus scourged, handed him over to be crucified.
Mark 15:13-15

 

[dylanvb]

We now have 60 pages of back and forth discussion on how Christians have experienced God in their own lives, the historical evidence of the Bible, the scientific conclusions that some of the most brilliant minds have discovered pointing to creation and not to mention the billions of miracles that have happened and continue to happen and people still want to come in this thread and say there isn’t proof. I truly find it baffling.

 

[go_deep]

We now have 60 pages of back and forth discussion on how Christians have experienced God in their own lives, the historical evidence of the Bible, the scientific conclusions that some of the most brilliant minds have discovered pointing to creation and not to mention the billions of miracles that have happened and continue to happen and people still want to come in this thread and say there isn’t proof. I truly find it baffling.

Why?
Dozens of Scriptures says this will happen.

Just pray about it, for them, and turn it over to God. Or like Jesus said, dust off your feet and move on.

It's hard to have the antidote and see others sick, but unwilling to allow the cute to be administered, but I once was blind and was unwilling. By the grace of God, I saw the way, maybe some day others here that don't will too.

 

[dylanvb]

Why?
Dozens of Scriptures says this will happen.

Just pray about it, for them, and turn it over to God. Or like Jesus said, dust off your feet and move on.

It's hard to have the antidote and see others sick, but unwilling to allow the cute to be administered, but I once was blind and was unwilling. By the grace of God, I saw the way, maybe some day others here that don't will too.

I agree, I have posted many of those scriptures as well to remind myself.

I do understand that wisdom and knowledge truly are gifts from God as well so I guess the conclusion I come to is #1 they chose not to believe, #2 because of their unbelief God will not reveal himself to them.

Case closed. Until you are willing to accept the truth the truth will be hidden. You have to have a change of heart before anything.

 

[KurtR]

We now have 60 pages of back and forth discussion on how Christians have experienced God in their own lives, the historical evidence of the Bible, the scientific conclusions that some of the most brilliant minds have discovered pointing to creation and not to mention the billions of miracles that have happened and continue to happen and people still want to come in this thread and say there isn’t proof. I truly find it baffling.

Couldnt you replace Christians with any other religion and they would all come to the same consensus?

 

[go_deep]

Couldnt you replace Christians with any other religion and they would all come to the same consensus?

No. Religion is the attempt to reach God. Christianity is God reaching out to humanity.
There's a definitive difference that separate those 2.

 

[KurtR]

No. Religion is the attempt to reach God. Christianity is God reaching out to humanity.
There's a definitive difference that separate those 2.

But isnt that what every other religion would say about their chosen religion? You could replace Christianity with say Islam, Judaism or Budhism?

 

[go_deep]

But isnt that what every other religion would say about their chosen religion? You could replace Christianity with say Islam, Judaism or Budhism?

Not at all actually. Religions say they're not God, and you have to earn salvation, you have to earn the right.
Christianity is Jesus Christ coming to you, meeting you where you are, telling you he is God, here to provide you salvation, if you choose to except that.

 

[Shortschaf]

And to piggyback off of go_deep above:

But isnt that what every other religion would say about their chosen religion? You could replace Christianity with say Islam, Judaism or Budhism?

Islam, Judaism, yes. Noteworthy to say they are both reaching for the same old testemant God of Abraham we are talking about with Christianity (a pivotal difference is we believe in the whole Trinity)

Budhism, no. They have no God

 

[KurtR]

And to piggyback off of go_deep above:


Islam, Judaism, yes. Noteworthy to say they are both reaching for the same old testemant God of Abraham we are talking about with Christianity (a pivotal difference is we believe in the whole Trinity)

Budhism, no. They have no God

But then what makes one right and one wrong?

 

[go_deep]

But then what makes one right and one wrong?

The truth.

 

[Shortschaf]

But then what makes one right and one wrong?

Lies on the individual to discern

Happy to try and help if you want, but I am just a stranger on the internet

 

[KurtR]

The truth.

Whos truth?

 

[go_deep]

Whos truth?

Not mine, not yours, not each individuals own truth, the truth.

 

[KurtR]

Lies on the individual to discern

Happy to try and help if you want, but I am just a stranger on the internet

My hang up is more with the organized churches of today. Grew up Lutheran going to church every sunday and sunday school and vacation bible school whole deal. Been to plenty catholic church my wife is catholic and went to some southern baptist services when i was in basic training which i will say were the most enjoyable, fun and welcoming church function i have been to. Four white kids from south dakota were made felt like we belonged

Seems both the lutheran and catholic are more worried about getting the donations than salvation as i get letters monthly from my childhood church about not getting any donations and when at the mandatory marriage classes the catholic priest did not accept that i could pray to god the same on lake oahe as i could in his brick and mortar building no donation was his insinuation.

Do i believe there is a god or some higher power kind off but then my analytic mind takes over and its a struggle to connect the dots.

I do believe religion is great for some people who need something to get them through tough times but then through out history it has also been the crutch that has supported some of the worst stuff when people believe they need to fight over it.

Some of the best people I know believe in god very much(not pushy about it) we have some great conversations and some who were even pastors and priests are the worst kind of human. This also makes me hard to reconcile it being a determining factor on some ones character.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Whos truth?

That is the ultimate question. There are very simple answers, and very complex answers.


Simply, the Truth is I AM,

The truth has always been, always will be, and is currently. The Truth was at the beginning and at the end, and all through the middle. The God of the Israelites, the God of Abraham, the God of christians is the Truth. This God created all and gave all of us a choice to live pure or sin, and as humans we have a sin nature that wants to rebel from purity and that rebellion must be paid for by a blood sacrifice. There is a reason Islamic people still offer blood sacrifices. This is the atonement for sin.

Where we all split is that Jesus is the True Messiah, He is the Christ. He was God incarnate. He offered Himself as the blood sacrifice for all, so that anyone who calls on Him shall be saved and have eternal life. Islamic people believe Jesus was a prophet, Jewish people think Jesus was a good teacher. They do not acknowledge the divinity or the saving grace that Jesus offers all of us. For this, they are missing the truth.

The interesting part is Islam and Jew alike feel Jesus was a good person and yet the reality is Jesus walked on this earth calling Himself the Son of Man, God Himself. How can a good person call himself God and expect to be taken seriously IF He really wasn't? That is the folly of these religious beliefs. Either Jesus was God incarnate, or He was a crazed lunatic. He was either who He claimed to be, or someone clearly not to be trusted any more than Jim Jones or David Koresh. And if He was who He said He is, then these other religions (Islam and Judaism) are missing the truth altogether.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

My hang up is more with the organized churches of today. Grew up Lutheran going to church every sunday and sunday school and vacation bible school whole deal. Been to plenty catholic church my wife is catholic and went to some southern baptist services when i was in basic training which i will say were the most enjoyable, fun and welcoming church function i have been to. Four white kids from south dakota were made felt like we belonged

Seems both the lutheran and catholic are more worried about getting the donations than salvation as i get letters monthly from my childhood church about not getting any donations and when at the mandatory marriage classes the catholic priest did not accept that i could pray to god the same on lake oahe as i could in his brick and mortar building no donation was his insinuation.

Do i believe there is a god or some higher power kind off but then my analytic mind takes over and its a struggle to connect the dots.

I do believe religion is great for some people who need something to get them through tough times but then through out history it has also been the crutch that has supported some of the worst stuff when people believe they need to fight over it.

Some of the best people I know believe in god very much(not pushy about it) we have some great conversations and some who were even pastors and priests are the worst kind of human. This also makes me hard to reconcile it being a determining factor on some ones character.

Kurt, I am sorry to read of your struggles BECAUSE of churches. This is not uncommon. Where many people get hung up is the human institution of religion and churches. We have to realize that religion is simply the human institution that is historically been the conduit for people to learn about God and Jesus. It also is a very secularly driven institution in that it does need money to operate and many times when the institution get large enough, the wheel is spinning the mouse and not the other way around. We see this all the time in many fields. Doesn't make it any easier to swallow.

The truth is, Jesus/God/Holy Spirit want a personal relationship with everyone. There is no "need" for church for that to happen. You can find them as easily on a mountain top as you can in a pew, or on lake oahe than in a brick and mortar building. Jesus/God/Holy Spirit do not want a bunch of religious robots in heaven any more than they want a bunch of robots in heaven to begin with, hence our free will. They want you, and me, and everyone in heaven with them each with our unique personalities and differences. Just as we are all made differently, we all can come to know them differently.

I personally find church a good mechanism to offer support, teaching, and encouragement. This is not through just going, but through meeting people and getting to know people. Church should not be a priest or minister or preacher just dispensing, it should be a community of people living. Like Jesus lived with people, so we are called to be like Jesus and live with people.

Again, I am sorry your experiences with church have been tainted. There are many good churches out there, but many bad ones too. Your experience is not uncommon unfortunately.