The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[intunegp]

Would you be willing to define what you mean by "none of us have experienced it yet?" What would you define as "having experienced the afterlife?"

The direct way of asking this is could someone have died, come back to life and be able to say that they have seen the afterlife?

I mean exactly that. I don't think anyone really knows what happens after death. If someone died and came back to life, how would we know the afterlife they described didn't exist only in their head? Maybe they're exactly right or maybe it was all a dream.

The data shows health and life benefits to having faith in God.

Beyond beliefs: does religious faith lead to a happier, healthier life?

The stress-reducing, life-extending benefits of religion can offer useful strategies even for non-believers, say scientists

www.theguardian.com

edit: I typed out a line-by-line response to the main talking points of this article and somehow the formatting got trashed from creating to posting so I removed it. The below point still stands and captures the gist of both the article and my response.

The health and life benefits "provided by religion" are great for those who can't find them elsewhere, but none mandate religion to be obtained. You can live a clean life, have healthy social connections, cultivate positive emotions and happiness, and have a sense of purpose and meaning all without religion. Many people may struggle with this on their own, and for them perhaps religion is a great way to achieve things that were once out of reach without it.

 

[CorbLand]

I mean exactly that. I don't think anyone really knows what happens after death. If someone died and came back to life, how would we know the afterlife they described didn't exist only in their head? Maybe they're exactly right or maybe it was all a dream.

Fair enough. I was just curious if it was something that you would/could consider as a possibility.

 

[Yoder]

Would you do the same to try other religions not closely associated with yours?

That's a really good point. No. I wouldn't. It's the number one commandment, love God above all else. I wouldn't worship another God to try it out. I would read the Koran for example just to see what Muslims believe.

 

[go_deep]

Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."
John 8:58

 

[molliesmaster]

No idea but the references are there so you can look up each one of them. I didn't check so maybe they're all fake, you can judge.

I didn't need to scroll very far to see that it was another group of angry people misinterpreting the text.








P.s.- I've read the Bible in its entirety multiple times, just in case my credentials matter.

 

[go_deep]

Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6

 

[Steven.Elmore]

Watching this thread grow over the last week has been interesting to say the least. It's encouraging to see the number of people willing to post a comment on a public forum for their belief in Christ. I just wanted to insert some truth and encouragement for those who have encouraged me. As a believer in Christ and the inerrancy of Scripture, there are certain truths one must always weigh in every situation.

The majority of mankind is not going to believe in Christ.
Not all that say they are a Christian truly are.
God is much bigger and greater than I am.

There are things about scripture I don't understand, parallel truths, paradox's, etc. yet men still try to explain it away and think they're right. The best theologians/pastors may get 70% of the Bible, or God's logic/motive behind His actions correct, that's why we should follow Christ and read the Bible for ourselves in a meaningful way. Mankind is generally just humble enough to say there is a God but arrogant enough to think we can understand a being that spoke everything into existence and account for the way He does things or His reasoning. There are things this side of death that we won't ever know or be able to explain and we should be ok with that. Scripture clearly teaches God moves men's hearts. Sometimes the best thing to do is put the words out there and let God do just that.

 

[intunegp]

Fair enough. I was just curious if it was something that you would/could consider as a possibility.

I'm open to all possibilities, including that Christianity is a 100% correct interpretation of our lives, a greater power, and the world we live in. I just don't think those accounts (the dying/coming back to life) hold any merit. I would liken it to someone recounting a dream...it could be exactly correct, but they couldn't prove it to me based on their experience alone.

Out of curiosity and ignorance, are there any biblical accounts of someone temporarily dying/visiting heaven and being sent back to the realm of the living?

 

[Dos Perros]

Christians: Jesus is God
Jews: ya Jesus is not God
Muslims: ya Jesus is not God

All this time I thought Jesus was God's son.

 

[omicron1792]

I mean exactly that. I don't think anyone really knows what happens after death. If someone died and came back to life, how would we know the afterlife they described didn't exist only in their head? Maybe they're exactly right or maybe it was all a dream.



edit: I typed out a line-by-line response to the main talking points of this article and somehow the formatting got trashed from creating to posting so I removed it. The below point still stands and captures the gist of both the article and my response.

The health and life benefits "provided by religion" are great for those who can't find them elsewhere, but none mandate religion to be obtained. You can live a clean life, have healthy social connections, cultivate positive emotions and happiness, and have a sense of purpose and meaning all without religion. Many people may struggle with this on their own, and for them perhaps religion is a great way to achieve things that were once out of reach without it.

Would you mind showing me the data on that? The data has consistently shown people of faith to do better in many measurable metrics. The non believers have always clung to the idea that it could be replicated without faith (even the article I posted did that some, of course without any data to back it up).

It’s a serious question. I would love to see where someone has shown through a study that replicating faith in God without actually having faith has the same benefits.

 

[Dos Perros]

Out of curiosity and ignorance, are there any biblical accounts of someone temporarily dying/visiting heaven and being sent back to the realm of the living?

Lazarus? Jesus himself?

 

[molliesmaster]

Out of curiosity and ignorance, are there any biblical accounts of someone temporarily dying/visiting heaven and being sent back to the realm of the living?

Right off the top of my head, Isaiah 6 and the entire book of Revelations. I think there is some stuff in Daniel but I can't remember the chapters off the top of my head. I'm sure I am forgetting others.

These aren't specifically death-back to life accounts but visions, I guess we would probably call them dreams.

 

[Kenn]

I didn't need to scroll very far to see that it was another group of angry people misinterpreting the text.








P.s.- I've read the Bible in its entirety multiple times, just in case my credentials matter.

Could you point out the misinterpretations? I checked a few with my version of The Living Bible, and it was verbatim. There's no doubt that the people compiling it are bible skeptics but although I didn't check them all I didn't see any misinterpretation. Please post your version of the misinterpreted verses.

 

[intunegp]

Would you mind showing me the data on that? The data has consistently shown people of faith to do better in many measurable metrics. The non believers have always clung to the idea that it could be replicated without faith (even the article I posted did that some, of course without any data to back it up).

It’s a serious question. I would love to see where someone has shown through a study that replicating faith in God without actually having faith has the same benefits.

I can't help you there and I don't know how such a study would be conducted. I think it is kind of disingenuous to refer to being healthy and living a good life as replicating faith in god. While it may be true that religious people live longer on average, I think it's a bit of a leap to say that religion is the sole reason for that. Correlation not being causation and all.

I experience everyday that it is possible to live a clean life, have a healthy social life, have overwhelmingly positive and happy emotions, and feel a sense of purpose and meaning without religion, and I don't feel that I'm replicating some religious faith by doing so.

As the religious say, you may not believe me, but it is true and it is my experience.

Lazarus? Jesus himself?

I'm not familiar with the story of Lazarus, and Jesus is a bit of an anomaly being the son of god and all. Surely his experience would be different than a mere mortal's. I have seen a movie called The Lazarus Effect which is about bringing a dead person back to life so I probably should have put two and two together. I'll read up on that.

Right off the top of my head, Isaiah 6 and the entire book of Revelations. I think there is some stuff in Daniel but I can't remember the chapters off the top of my head. I'm sure I am forgetting others.

These aren't specifically death-back to life accounts but visions, I guess we would probably call them dreams.

I guess part of my point about no one knowing what happens after death is that visions or dreams seem to come from within...I had a dream that my pregnant wife laid an egg rather than giving birth to a baby but I didn't assume it to be a message from god showing me something to come.

 

[CorbLand]

I'm open to all possibilities, including that Christianity is a 100% correct interpretation of our lives, a greater power, and the world we live in. I just don't think those accounts (the dying/coming back to life) hold any merit. I would liken it to someone recounting a dream...it could be exactly correct, but they couldn't prove it to me based on their experience alone.

Out of curiosity and ignorance, are there any biblical accounts of someone temporarily dying/visiting heaven and being sent back to the realm of the living?

I am far from an expert on the Bible. Actually never read the entire thing cover to cover but Lazarus was dead for four days and brought back to life.

 

[Hill Difficulty]

All this time I thought Jesus was God's son.

...and Lord of lords and King of kings

 

[CorbLand]

I'm not familiar with the story of Lazarus, and Jesus is a bit of an anomaly being the son of god and all. Surely his experience would be different than a mere mortal's. I have seen a movie called The Lazarus Effect which is about bringing a dead person back to life so I probably should have put two and two together. I'll read up on that.

I will let people that understand this stuff far better than me correct me but Jesus was mortal. He came to this earth as a human. It wasn’t until he was resurrected that that changed.

 

[intunegp]

I will let people that understand this stuff far better than me correct me but Jesus was mortal. He came to this earth as a human. It wasn’t until he was resurrected that that changed.

Fair enough. It seems that there was at least one case of someone (besides jesus) dying, going to heaven, and coming back in the bible, and I was mostly just curious if that type of situation was addressed or recognized since now it seems to be (relatively) common for someone to clinically die and be brought back to life.

 

[Yoder]

I'm open to all possibilities, including that Christianity is a 100% correct interpretation of our lives, a greater power, and the world we live in. I just don't think those accounts (the dying/coming back to life) hold any merit. I would liken it to someone recounting a dream...it could be exactly correct, but they couldn't prove it to me based on their experience alone.

Out of curiosity and ignorance, are there any biblical accounts of someone temporarily dying/visiting heaven and being sent back to the realm of the living?

I listened to an audio book called Imagine Heaven by John Burke. He interviews thousands of people who have had near death experiences from all over the world. Some were born blind. Others had no idea who Jesus is. The similarities they have are pretty unbelievable. Not all were positive. Some were actually pretty terrifying. When the author started this project, he described himself as an agnostic skeptical of faith and he was an Engineer, so he was constantly questioning everything. I think this makes it less biased.

John the Apostle saw heaven in the book of Revelation, also the Apostle
Paul in Corinthians. Neither died but were shown a peek. I'm sure someone here could quote exact scripture. These accounts and others taken from scripture are what John Burke compares to the NDE accounts. You should check out the book, it's pretty interesting.

 

[BBob]

Christians: Jesus is God
Jews: ya Jesus is not God
Muslims: ya Jesus is not God

All this time I thought Jesus was God's son.