The CWD scam

[mt terry d]

I think it's a dangerous game to ASSume it won't cross just because it hasn't (that we know of) yet.

Given the record of our biolabs it's highly likely at some point it will.

 

[Skerhunter]

You have to soak it in that solution for a while. There are a lot of guidelines for it that are supported by scientific research when it comes to inactivating the prion. It just doesn’t work with porous surfaces. It also doesn’t last forever, I forget how long but it does fade over time. I’ve never had an animal test positive and until MT I didn’t hunt in areas known to have CWD. There is some risk there no doubt, but I have a new pack and new knives and game bags that have only seen MT animals that have been tested for CWD. And as far as my clothes go, I’m not eating them anytime soon.

Yeah, mandatory will never take hold. Partially funding, partially people feeling its big brother government forcing them to do something to control them. Additionally, if these deer breeders were thinking long term rather than short term, they would realize it is against their interests to lobby against CWD management. If it jumps the species barrier, their farms are no longer going to be allowed. They will kill all of their deer and quarantine that farm if there is any possibility of it making people sick. They’re thinking short term not long term.

The surface has nothin to do if bleach will denature the protein or not - it is all about contact time. 10-30 minutes is standard practice for decontamination with 1:10 bleach.

 

[Skerhunter]

Given the record of our biolabs it's highly likely at some point it will.

They have been trying and will keep trying! To date the models they used to prove how other prions can be zoonotic don’t work.

 

[huntineveryday]

The surface has nothin to do if bleach will denature the protein or not - it is all about contact time. 10-30 minutes is standard practice for decontamination with 1:10 bleach.

Honest question, could you point me to a decent source for those recommendations? Last time I looked hard the recommendation was a higher bleach concentration, but less time. It was hard on the finish of my knives (the handles, not the blade)! Now I isolate materials used to break down the deer and wait for test results to come back before cleaning them. I've only had 1 test positive so far, but it's likely yo happen again at some point.

 

[Rizzy]

I'm glad if there are confident and knowledgeable hunters that are willing to be test subjects on disease transmission. I'm scared to.......

 

[Skerhunter]

Honest question, could you point me to a decent source for those recommendations? Last time I looked hard the recommendation was a higher bleach concentration, but less time. It was hard on the finish of my knives (the handles, not the blade)! Now I isolate materials used to break down the deer and wait for test results to come back before cleaning them. I've only had 1 test positive so far, but it's likely yo happen again at some point.

Below are some links for one study! They targeted a contact time of only 5 minutes. That was a poor study design though - 1:10 bleach is probably the best sterilant/disinfectant out there. Standard contact time required to kill pretty much everything is 10-30 minutes. It destroys stuff though, even after rinsing with alcohol, so I wouldn’t clean expensive stainless knives/processing equipment with it (unless you have to).

Inactivation of chronic wasting disease prions using sodium hypochlorite

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal prion disease that can infect deer, elk and moose. CWD has now been detected in 26 states of the USA, 3 Canadian provinces, South Korea, Norway, Sweden and Finland. CWD continues to spread from endemic areas, and new foci of infections are frequently...

journals.plos.org

Household Bleach Inactivates Chronic Wasting Disease Prions

Strategy Appears Feasible for Decontaminating Hunting, Meat Processing Equipment.

www.nih.gov

 

[huntineveryday]

Below are some links for one study! They targeted a contact time of only 5 minutes. That was a poor study design though - 1:10 bleach is probably the best sterilant/disinfectant out there. Standard contact time required to kill pretty much everything is 10-30 minutes. It destroys stuff though, even after rinsing with alcohol, so I wouldn’t clean expensive stainless knives/processing equipment with it (unless you have to).

Inactivation of chronic wasting disease prions using sodium hypochlorite

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal prion disease that can infect deer, elk and moose. CWD has now been detected in 26 states of the USA, 3 Canadian provinces, South Korea, Norway, Sweden and Finland. CWD continues to spread from endemic areas, and new foci of infections are frequently...

journals.plos.org

Household Bleach Inactivates Chronic Wasting Disease Prions

Strategy Appears Feasible for Decontaminating Hunting, Meat Processing Equipment.

www.nih.gov

Thanks. It's been a few years, but I think that 40% for 5 minutes was the best recommendation I could find the last time I looked hard. I can tell you that 40% for 5 minutes will alter the finish on a Buck 119 handle!

I have changed how I handle deer after that, really thought more about everything I use when caring for the meat. I break down the deer with gutless method in the field, using only knives and tools I feel comfortable soaking in bleach, then meat goes in game bags and then contractor bags, on ice in a cooler I am comfortable tossing. Test turnaround is pretty fast, so I keep meat on ice until test results come back. Positive, cooler is sealed and off to the landfill, then equipment gets cleaned and soaked in bleach solution. Not detected, meat gets packaged and frozen, then everything gets washed and put away like normal. Still some potential for exposure, but I feel like those are all easy steps to take to minimize risk and potential spread of prions.

I also drive the speed limit and wear my seat belt. I work in healthcare and am used to looking towards research to drive decision making, which carries over into this area.

Do some research, determine how much risk you are comfortable with, and proceed accordingly.

 

[Skerhunter]

Thanks. It's been a few years, but I think that 40% for 5 minutes was the best recommendation I could find the last time I looked hard. I can tell you that 40% for 5 minutes will alter the finish on a Buck 119 handle!

I have changed how I handle deer after that, really thought more about everything I use when caring for the meat. I break down the deer with gutless method in the field, using only knives and tools I feel comfortable soaking in bleach, then meat goes in game bags and then contractor bags, on ice in a cooler I am comfortable tossing. Test turnaround is pretty fast, so I keep meat on ice until test results come back. Positive, cooler is sealed and off to the landfill, then equipment gets cleaned and soaked in bleach solution. Not detected, meat gets packaged and frozen, then everything gets washed and put away like normal. Still some potential for exposure, but I feel like those are all easy steps to take to minimize risk and potential spread of prions.

I also drive the speed limit and wear my seat belt. I work in healthcare and am used to looking towards research to drive decision making, which carries over into this area.

Do some research, determine how much risk you are comfortable with, and proceed accordingly.

Correct - but their study looked a 1 to 5 minute contact time, hence the 40%. Which if you did that for standard virus/bacteria you would get laughed at (10 minutes would be the minimum).

I really question if any preventative measures have a measurable benefit (not being the first person to have cwd). If the deer get it from the environment or transmit it via basic contact. Once you shoot an animal/takes pics/quarter butcher you have already potentially came into contact with it (enough to spread between animals per current theories). Your clothes gear everything would be potentially infected and impossible to decontaminate (and be usable afterwards).

 

[Predator_SD]

It’s actually remarkable that after 70 years of knowing about CWD with likely countless numbers of infected animals being eaten by humans people are still afraid of CWD.

Yet, they will eat McDoanalds, Taco Bell, smoke cigarettes, drink soda, etc.

We are as a society getting weaker and dumber.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Also, we already know that the prion can survive the digestive track of coyotes, so any presence of the prion within that meat, your dog is then spreading it onto the ground in your own neighborhood. The best possible thing we can do to eliminate any possibility of it spreading is to incinerate it. Whether or not that is within your own values system is one thing, but the prions can and do pass through the digestive tract of predators unharmed and are then present in the landscape wherever that predator defecates. My values system says I have a responsibility to not put prions on the ground in my own neighborhood so I would immediately dispose of the meat if I were to shoot a positive deer. Others may not feel the same, but the science is clear and shows it will pass through carnivore digestive tracts unharmed.

Really? There is a huge push from the anti hunters here in Co saying wolves and mt lions digest and “kill” cwd prions so we should stop hunting cats or wolves or coyotes since they are supposedly purifying the land…

 

[Predator_SD]

Exactly, this is how it should be. We don't need to give CWD a reason or a chance to jump the species barrier to humans. I understand that it sucks when a deer test positive for CWD after you spend time and effort to kill it, but it could be end up being contagious in humans if it jumps the barrier. Luckily mad cow has not been transmissible, but that doesn't mean that other diseases can't become transmissible.

What you’re failing to understand is CWD is a prion. Prions are nothing but a misfolded protein. They DONT mutate, adapt, or change in any way whatsoever. As such there is ZERO chance the CWD prion ever infects humans, period. Prions don’t work that way. To cross a species barrier a pathogen would need to mutate and adapt and Prions most definitely do not.

The “may, perhaps, possibly, we think” type verbiage used by CWD profiteers, oh i mean “researchers” use that verbiage to keep the easily alarmed scared. Why? Because if the public is scared their never ending funding continues. They ever make a determination CWD is no big deal, as it clearly isn’t, CWD funding dries up and their careers die.

You’ve taken the bait hook line and sinker. To date all that supposedly awesome research you cited in WI has proven absolutely nothing about CWD. They still can’t even determine if it’s detrimental to the Whitetail herd. They have no idea how to stop it, or even slow it down. They are quite literally no further along in understanding CWD than they wete 20 years ago. Yep, that’s some amazing work right there! Yet another fine example of tax payer dollars being wasted.

 

[Predator_SD]

I personally don’t test my animals because ignorance is bliss. I also have zero issues with a hunter throwing away an animal that tests positive for CWD. Isn’t that better than government agents culling animals on the tax payers dime?

No, it’s wanton waste. Killing animals only to landfill them is pathetic.

If someone is afraid of CWD or any of the other diseases wild animals carry, they should quit hunting.

You eat what you kill is the most basic tenet of hunting.

 

[RockAndSage]

Prions are nothing but a misfolded protein

Right...in the same way anthrax is nothing but a misunderstood bacteria.

Please, continue telling us how brave you are, how courageous you are, and how you are filled with more righteous integrity on the true ethics of hunting, than all the rest of us cowering cowards consumed by cowardice in the face of this simple misfolded protein.

 

[Predator_SD]

Right...in the same way anthrax is nothing but a misunderstood bacteria.

Please, continue telling us how brave you are, how courageous you are, and how you are filled with more righteous integrity on the true ethics of hunting, than all the rest of us cowering cowards consumed by cowardice in the face of this simple misfolded protein.

I hate to seem like i’m talking down to you because i’m not.

But….Anthrax is NOT a misunderstood bacteria it is a known human pathogen. Which by the way also is NOT a prion. Meaning it in no way acts or behaves like a prion.

So, getting back to CWD Prions. They are a known pathogen to cervids that do not in any way cause harm to human. Being they don’t mutate, change, adapt, or respond to stimuli in any way meaning they will forever be as they are now how would you propose they cross over to humans?

Please do elaborate i’d love to hear where you’re coming from without all the useless chatter.

I’m not brave for eating venison. I’m just educated enough on the topic to know CWD poses zero risk to me or anyone else, children included.

 

[KsRancher]

What you’re failing to understand is CWD is a prion. Prions are nothing but a misfolded protein. They DONT mutate, adapt, or change in any way whatsoever. As such there is ZERO chance the CWD prion ever infects humans, period. Prions don’t work that way. To cross a species barrier a pathogen would need to mutate and adapt and Prions most definitely do not.

The “may, perhaps, possibly, we think” type verbiage used by CWD profiteers, oh i mean “researchers” use that verbiage to keep the easily alarmed scared. Why? Because if the public is scared their never ending funding continues. They ever make a determination CWD is no big deal, as it clearly isn’t, CWD funding dries up and their careers die.

You’ve taken the bait hook line and sinker. To date all that supposedly awesome research you cited in WI has proven absolutely nothing about CWD. They still can’t even determine if it’s detrimental to the Whitetail herd. They have no idea how to stop it, or even slow it down. They are quite literally no further along in understanding CWD than they wete 20 years ago. Yep, that’s some amazing work right there! Yet another fine example of tax payer dollars being wasted.

You do know that humans can be infected from eating BSE positive meat? It's a prion that infects cattle and humans can get it. I know CWD hasn't crossed yet. But BSE hadn't either. Until it did

 

[elkhunter505]

What you’re failing to understand is CWD is a prion. Prions are nothing but a misfolded protein. They DONT mutate, adapt, or change in any way whatsoever. As such there is ZERO chance the CWD prion ever infects humans, period. Prions don’t work that way. To cross a species barrier a pathogen would need to mutate and adapt and Prions most definitely do not.

Prions can mutate. They’ve already shown that it happens on a molecular level. The folding pattern of the protein can be different which can change the way it manifests. Go right ahead with eating CWD positive meat, it’s a free country. I ain’t gonna stop you. I just sure as hell am not going to be patient zero, personally.

 

[brocksw]

They DONT mutate, adapt, or change in any way whatsoever. As such there is ZERO chance the CWD prion ever infects humans, period. Prions don’t work that way. To cross a species barrier a pathogen would need to mutate and adapt and Prions most definitely do not.

That’s not true. There are something like 10 different Prion strains for CWD. They’ve isolated a new strain out of the 132LL genotype elk and a new strain out of H95 genotype whitetails.

Novel Strain of the Chronic Wasting Disease Agent Isolated From Experimentally Inoculated Elk With LL132 Prion Protein - Scientific Reports

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal, progressive disease that affects cervid species, including Rocky mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni). There are 2 allelic variants in the elk prion protein gene: L132 (leucine) and M132 (methionine). Following experimental oral challenge with the CWD...

www.nature.com

New and distinct chronic wasting disease strains associated with cervid polymorphism at codon 116 of the Prnp gene

Author summary Chronic wasting disease belongs to the family of prion diseases. It is considered the most contagious prion disease and the only one that affects free ranging wildlife. The disease range is expanding in North America and Northern Europe. This work describes the emergence and...

journals.plos.org

Deer Prion Proteins Modulate the Emergence and Adaptation of Chronic Wasting Disease Strains - PMC

Transmission of chronic wasting disease (CWD) between cervids is influenced by the primary structure of the host cellular prion protein (PrPC). In white-tailed deer, PRNP alleles encode the polymorphisms Q95 G96 (wild type [wt]), Q95 S96 (referred ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Examining PRNP gene frequencies and ‘resistance’ to chronic wasting disease

Multiple studies have demonstrated that various alleles of the cervid prion protein (PRNP) gene affect chronic wasting disease (CWD) progression.

www.usgs.gov

There’s more, but there’s a few resources…

They still can’t even determine if it’s detrimental to the Whitetail herd.

Population impacts in Iowa county Wisconsin after 20+ years. I’ve talked to landowners who live in that area. The impacts are real and landowners are seeing them.

Iowa county:
No major EHD outbreaks, no bears or wolves, no culling since 2007, and hunter harvest is half of what it was in 2011. The best whitetail habitat in the world and the population is still falling. Maybe it’s because of a sustained 25% prevalence of CWD….





I talked to a hunter in neighboring southern Richland county(borders Iowa county to the North) who has seen significantly lower deer numbers and significantly reduced age structure. North end of Richland county hasn’t seen the population impacts yet, but the landowners I’ve talked to there report high prevalence and fully expect those impacts to start showing up.

 

[brocksw]

 

[brocksw]

Wisconsin’s preliminary data from a 4 year GPS collar study that collared 1,082 deer.

 

[elkhunter505]

Really? There is a huge push from the anti hunters here in Co saying wolves and mt lions digest and “kill” cwd prions so we should stop hunting cats or wolves or coyotes since they are supposedly purifying the land…

Well they’re wrong if they’re talking about coyotes. There may be more studies and I see one on Mtn Lions that says it passes but at 96% less quantities. It passes through the digestive tract of coyotes so I would bet it goes through wolves. Maybe it prevents the direct contact but it doesn’t prevent indirect contact. Maybe a deer is not as likely to be where predator scents occur so they may be less likely to come into contact with it, but it still doesn’t denature or inactivate the protein in any way from what I know. I see another paper on scavengers that seems to conclude crows pass it through. Probably will be more research on that specific topic in the future. I’m surprised there’s not more especially from the normal anti hunting players.