The CWD scam

[satchamo]

I’m not gonna get into my opinions on the matter.

But I have to ask the question: what does one gain from denying CWD or the seriousness there of? And no, this is not a rhetorical question. I’m seriously curious.

 

[elkhunter505]

I’m not gonna get into my opinions on the matter.

But I have to ask the question: what does one gain from denying CWD or the seriousness there of? And no, this is not a rhetorical question. I’m seriously curious.

I am also extremely curious about this. Thanks for bringing it up. Personally, I don’t see why there is so much push back on it. I have seen and heard people say CWD is a conspiracy to get rid of hunting, but given the state wildlife agencies literally run on hunting dollars and are actively in that research warning people about it, it seems illogical to think that they want to get rid of hunting because it would literally put the people at the agencies out of a job and end up with the agencies having no funding.

 

[30338]

Unless you are testing every single deer you kill, you literally have no idea if one you shoot has cwd or not. I simply am not going to do that. Cleaned a few skulls for people a few years back. Guys would drop off a skull and be in a required testing zone. 2 weeks later they were shocked that their very healthy fat forkhorn mule deer had cwd.

So either test every single deer or simply know that sooner or later you are going to be eating one with cwd.

 

[wytx]

1800C or 1800F?

I was speaking in Celcius. Hence the C. 1000 Celsius is 1832 fahrenheit.

While I dont know for fact. I doubt they are operating an incinerator at Ti smelting temp of 1800c or 3200f.

Sorry, 1,800 F.

 

[NMJM]

For me it comes down to stats. There number of positive CWD deer consumed by people is unknown but probably well of into the 10s of thousands or maybe 100s of thousands. Not a single case transmitted to humans. There are so many other things to worry about. How many people say they would never eat CWD positive meat but text while driving? There is lots of research that shows a negative impact on health by drinking beer, how many people drink? You could go on and on. Lots of known risks people ignore but CWD people are terrified of. With that being said it is a threat to wildlife and I hope research continues.

 

[jmez]

Unless you are testing every single deer you kill, you literally have no idea if one you shoot has cwd or not. I simply am not going to do that. Cleaned a few skulls for people a few years back. Guys would drop off a skull and be in a required testing zone. 2 weeks later they were shocked that their very healthy fat forkhorn mule deer had cwd.

So either test every single deer or simply know that sooner or later you are going to be eating one with cwd.

Even if you test every single one you still have no idea. There is no such thing as a negative test. Only not detected. That does not mean the deer is negative nor does it mean there are no prions in the meat.

Really, if you are that concerned you shouldn't eat any deer from and endimic area. Wtih all of this "modeling" and high prevelenace rates there are a whole lot of not detected deer walking around with prions gettting killed and eaten every year.

With all of this modeling they could come up with a suposed number of deer taken and eaten every year containing prions. They could even retrospect back to the 60's when the disease was discovered. In 58 years how many billions of prions have been consumed yet not a human case. In 58 years how many billions of prions have been released into the environment, yet we still have deer and elk.

 

[mt terry d]

Let's stay away from this topic. Whether or not someone believes or doesn't believe in those theories is highly tied to their political leaning. The topic is CWD not Covid.

The "scam" is not that CWD doesn't exist. Yes, it exists. No one has denied that.

The "scam" is how it's being portrayed and used both as a money maker for government agencies and politically as an anti-hunting tool. This is not theory, this is fact.

We were always taught if it's not a pest, like a gopher or rats, if you don't want to eat it don't kill it.
We weren't taught wrong.

 

[taskswap]

For me it comes down to stats. There number of positive CWD deer consumed by people is unknown but probably well of into the 10s of thousands or maybe 100s of thousands. Not a single case transmitted to humans. There are so many other things to worry about. How many people say they would never eat CWD positive meat but text while driving? There is lots of research that shows a negative impact on health by drinking beer, how many people drink? You could go on and on. Lots of known risks people ignore but CWD people are terrified of. With that being said it is a threat to wildlife and I hope research continues.

These are not the same things, and it's an example of how bad humans are at instinctively judging statistical phenomena.

Drinking beer means you ingest 1 standard unit of ethanol per beer. For a 5%-avg 12oz beer that's 0.6oz of ethanol. You will have some pleasant effects and very minor impairment, plus a bit of residual damage to some of your organs. Nearly all adult humans can consume 1 beer and then drive or do other "risky" tasks. But 10 beers is too many for all except an extremely tiny number (perhaps 0) to consume and then safely drive a car.

It's not linear, though. Can you handle two beers? Probably. But lots of people can't. At 3, now the vast majority are starting to get impaired. One is almost always fine. But even at two, a statistically significant portion of the population should no longer drive.

OK, so take a breathalyzer if you're worried, right? The trouble is, rationalizing this way means you can get behind the wheel after drinking too much and tell yourself "the road is empty, I'm good." So you endanger yourself, any passengers you might have, and any pedestrians or other drivers you go by on the way home, but maybe it's only 10 people total, and you always made it before. So it's a small risk of a small tragedy.

But prion diseases are highly contagious. They're not "another beer." Other prions like CJD have already crossed the species barrier, so we know they can. We know that it's not that CWD can't, it's that it just hasn't yet. Once they evolve this adaptation, they stay adapted - there is currently no known cure for the human form of CJD (vCJD) and no way of reverting it to the form that "only affects cows." Fortunately, they caught that one early and Google says "only" 232 people have died of it so far. But the cat is most definitely out of the bag on it, and actually several hundred people contract it every year.

Here's where statistics can easily lie to you. Here's a chart of diagnosed cases of vCJD over time:



Looks good, right? We've really got a handle on it! But people don't die from it instantly. Here's a chart of deaths from it:



Not quite so good after all. It'll go down in a few years as those who have it today finish dying, but vCJD is with us for good now.

So here's the problem. Saying things like "but people drink and drive" or "but those cell phones" is called the Nirvana Fallacy. Just because we don't have perfect answers to every issue out there doesn't mean we shouldn't be smart about this one.

It's actually a form of elitism. CWD adapting to humans could take a mont or a hundred years, but it is always sitting there, knocking on the door, waiting for you to open it. Meanwhile, you're essentially saying "well it didn't mug me the LAST time I opened the door - should be fine, right?" because you don't want to be bothered with it.

That's fine if it WAS just another beer - a small tragedy in your local paper that shouldn't have happened, but the rest of humanity moves on. But in this case you're potentially hurting a LOT of other people. If you're Patient 0 (the one that lets the cat out of the bag), you're passing this gift on to every other current and future hunter that will now need to worry about this for sure.

And don't forget what we do to "fix" CJD in cow herds today. Since we don't have a cure, we kill them all.

This is not "just another beer."

Look it's not for me to tell anybody else how to live their lives, but I'll tell you this. If CWD crosses, and all of hunting as we know it today changes forever, it sure won't be my fault - at least not for lack of trying to follow any and all advice wildlife biologists have for me. I don't need that on my conscience.

 

[Reburn]

If CWD crosses, and all of hunting as we know it today changes forever, it sure won't be my fault - at least not for lack of trying to follow any and all advice wildlife biologists have for me. I don't need that on my conscience.

If the states cared that much and it was that dangerous surely they would mandatory test every harvest of all susceptiable species right?

So all native deer and elk species.

 

[wind gypsy]

I would just like to add that if you're a hunter who will have your meat tested
and throw it away if testing positive then for God's sake DON'T HUNT!
If you're too scared to eat it then have the decency to not kill it.

 

[wind gypsy]

I’m not gonna get into my opinions on the matter.

But I have to ask the question: what does one gain from denying CWD or the seriousness there of? And no, this is not a rhetorical question. I’m seriously curious.

1. Support for arguing against hunting regulations and govt culling that destroy age class in an ungulate herd
2. Support for arguing against restrictions on baiting and supplemental feeding
3. Support for arguing against strict regs on movement of ungulates - EX: cleaning skull plates and transporting bones, getting to taxidermist within set timeline, etc
4. More support for farming cervids and less related regulation
5. Support against spending tax $ on research

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I’m not gonna get into my opinions on the matter.

But I have to ask the question: what does one gain from denying CWD or the seriousness there of? And no, this is not a rhetorical question. I’m seriously curious.

Here in Texas most of the loudest CWD naysayers are deer breeders or know people who are breeders. They're upset because they have to follow rules from TPWD for movements and testing of animals they move around the state.

 

[intunegp]

The "scam" is not that CWD doesn't exist. Yes, it exists. No one has denied that.

The "scam" is how it's being portrayed and used both as a money maker for government agencies and politically as an anti-hunting tool. This is not theory, this is fact.

We were always taught if it's not a pest, like a gopher or rats, if you don't want to eat it don't kill it.
We weren't taught wrong.

That's not quite a fair comparison. People go deer/elk hunting planning on taking a deer or elk to eat, also knowing there's a small to moderate chance it may test positive for a disease which changes their willingness to eat it.

The unit I hunt in Colorado has 10-20% detection rate in adult bucks. If I draw a buck tag I know there's an 80-90% chance my deer will test negative/not detected. While I'm not willing to risk feeding my family CWD positive meat, I am willing to risk the 10-20% chance I won't be able to eat my harvest.

 

[wind gypsy]

The "scam" is not that CWD doesn't exist. Yes, it exists. No one has denied that.

The "scam" is how it's being portrayed and used both as a money maker for government agencies and politically as an anti-hunting tool. This is not theory, this is fact.

We were always taught if it's not a pest, like a gopher or rats, if you don't want to eat it don't kill it.
We weren't taught wrong.

If it's an anti hunting tool, why is the primary method of addressing it always to offer more opportunity to hunters?

 

[satchamo]

Here in Texas most of the loudest CWD naysayers are deer breeders or know people who are breeders. They're upset because they have to follow rules from TPWD for movements and testing of animals they move around the state.

Yeah that was my suspicion… the only folks trying to call BS or scam have some sort of financial interest in CWD “going away”

 

[elkhunter505]

If it's an anti hunting tool, why is the primary method of addressing it always to offer more opportunity to hunters?

Exactly. They’re always calling for people in WI to kill more deer through hunting and some hunters have not followed through. They have the opportunity to do it but many refuse to shoot does in many cases. If people are calling for government culling, it’s because those animals are inaccessible to public hunters, urban deer, private land, etc., or the hunters themselves have been given the opportunity to kill more deer and they refuse to do it. MT had a proposal for a CWD management mule deer hunt in region 6 last fall. Despite showing that that specific areas mule deer population is over objective by like 20 or 30%, the public shot it down saying there are too few mule deer. If there were too few, there wouldn’t be as high of a CWD prevalence.

 

[BlackHillsShooter]

Here in Texas most of the loudest CWD naysayers are deer breeders or know people who are breeders. They're upset because they have to follow rules from TPWD for movements and testing of animals they move around the state.

The government will take over as authorized breeders. They just have to kill off enough of the natural herd first. All they need is general public support then the real fun will start.

And we'll pay them to put animals out into the "wild" so we can hunt. And they'll guarantee you the safety most people in this thread appear to want to enjoy.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

The government will take over as authorized breeders. They just have to kill off enough of the natural herd first. All they need is general public support then the real fun will start.

And we'll pay them to put animals out into the "wild" so we can hunt. And they'll guarantee you the safety most people in this thread appear to want to enjoy.

lol yeah that's the government conspiracy I wanted to get into today, they created this whole thing so they could take over the deer breeding industry.

 

[jmez]

Captive game should be under the direction of the Dept of Agriculture not Game and FIsh. Most states are already like that.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Some of you shouldn’t leave your house without a helmet on. The odds of YOU or your dog you value more than human life being the first non cervid to get CWD from deer meat is around 0.00001%. It’s been consumed by 100s of thousands humans and K9s for 70 years at least. So yea, the dog food you buy at Costco that has god knows what in it is exponentially worse for your dogs than any deer meat. LOL. I enjoy learning how people’s brains go through these mathematical mental gymnastics though. Carry on!