The 22 creedmoor thread

[Grizzle]

Since my 22 is happy with the 88s I'm building a short 6 prc to play with. Love the idea of the 6 creed but just seemed to close to have both with the 22 working so well. If I had built the 6 creed first I'd probably have just stuck with it but where's the fun in that. Excited to see how the 88 tmk and 117 tmk shoot once (if) I can get some.

 

[TimberHunter]

My experience with the 88s in a 1:8 X cal and 1:7.5 Bartlein barrel has been great. No fuss at all. Both rifles shoot them at 3150 ish.

I should try them in my newer 22 Creed with a 1:8 Proof. Maybe I’m the lucky one here.

What barrel lengths are getting to the 3150 with the 88?


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[Grizzle]

My barrel is an ibi 20" 7 twist. Currently running 3075 with 39gr of h4350 in virgen brass. Could pretty easily get 3150 with a different and or more powder and will likley be 3100 on second fire now that that brass is formed.

 

[waspocrew]

What barrel lengths are getting to the 3150 with the 88?


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22”

Using somewhere around 40.7 grains of RL-23 (need to check my notes to confirm).

 

[ACHILLES]

Good looking gun! Thanks!

I was wondering about the mags. Right now I’ve got mine on a bravo stick using the Poly mdt mags. They’re working good but going to be putting it in a different stock for deer hunting next summer.

Have you ever tried the Waters 6br mags in it?


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I have not used the waters 6br, not sure if they would work or not. The easiest solution is probably going to be the ascension industries 3d printed 6ARC mags for tikka bm. Although I have not tried them yet.

 

[StupidLightweight]

Question for you gun nuts: Would a 77 TMK stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel at 22 Creed speeds? My guess is it would. Brownells has Douglas #1 contour barrels for just $227, and this seems like the way to go for a Kimber rebarrel.

 

[Matt5266]

Box of bullets says 8 twist or faster

 

[Kaleb]

Question for you gun nuts: Would a 77 TMK stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel at 22 Creed speeds? My guess is it would. Brownells has Douglas #1 contour barrels for just $227, and this seems like the way to go for a Kimber rebarrel.

I believe you would be glad you spent the extra and get Lilja to dupe the contour and get a 1:7-7:5. I get the appeal of saving 120-170 bucks and skipping the wait but I think you'll end up regretting the 9 twist.

 

[ACHILLES]

Question for you gun nuts: Would a 77 TMK stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel at 22 Creed speeds? My guess is it would. Brownells has Douglas #1 contour barrels for just $227, and this seems like the way to go for a Kimber rebarrel.

You will be fine SG is 1.6 at roughly 900’ DA at 3300fps (20”Bbl)

7.5 twist at 3300 is 316k rpm. No use in chancing bullets coming apart when the TMK will run in a 8 or 9 twist.

 

[Speaks]

Question for you gun nuts: Would a 77 TMK stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel at 22 Creed speeds? My guess is it would. Brownells has Douglas #1 contour barrels for just $227, and this seems like the way to go for a Kimber rebarrel.

Conventional wisdom in the 5.56 world is that a 1:9 would only reliably stabilize up too 69gr but it may or may not work for individual guns at higher weights. Nor sure if CM speeds will change that. I dont think I would buy a 1:9 specifically for them though.

 

[43.6N]

With the 88TMK now in the horizon, I wanted to get a better feel for a slower burning powder in my chamber.

H4350 and N555 have been great in this barrel so far with the 77tmk.
Neither of the above powders shot 80gr eldm or 88eldm better than 3moa.

I selected H1000 as likely a good powder to use when the 88TMK drops.

I loaded 10x 88gr eldm with 43.0gr H1000
5x 77gr TMK with 44.5gr H1000
And another 5x 77gr TMK with 45.0gr H1000

Alpha brass.
Winchester magnum primers.
All bullets seated 20thou short of the lands. Lands were measured by dropping one each of the above bullets into the chamber. Then taking a once fired piece of brass, swabbing the inside of the neck with red loctite, and then inserting into the chamber and closing the bolt. After loctite cured, dummy cartridge was removed, labeled, and cartridge base to 0.224 ogive was measured.

I’m looking for pressure, and general velocity with today’s test.

Velocity from my 1/7 16” barrel with saami freebore:
88eldm 43.0gr H1000: 2920fps. Primers had plenty of radius. Piss poor group size.
77tmk 44.5gr H1000: 3042fps. Decent groups. 20-30mph crosswind.
77tmk 45.0gr H1000: 3120fps. Decent group. 20-30mph crosswind. Primers starting to lose outer radius.


Takeaway:
88eldm, too inconsistent for me. 3 different powders have all failed to give a hunt-able group. BC on paper seems so attractive. BC in real life is effectively 0.00 since it never makes it past the 100yd phase.

88TMK MAY do well with H1000. I’ll probably target 43-44 gr during initial testing. Hoping to see 2925-3000fps out of this 16” barrel.

77tmk remains the standout bullet for me. This is the third powder that has put good groups and good velocity with this bullet.

 

[nm.otter]

All bullets seated 20thou short of the lands.
...
88eldm, too inconsistent for me. 3 different powders have all failed to give a hunt-able group. BC on paper seems so attractive. BC in real life is effectively 0.00 since it never makes it past the 100yd phase.

What barrel twist?

I'm still trying to understand why this seems to keep happening with 88 ELD-Ms in .22 Creedmoor. It may be related to barrel twist: Hornady loads them for .224 Valkyrie (1:7" SAAMI) and .22 ARC (1:7" SAAMI) but not for .22 Creedmoor (1:8" SAAMI).

 

[mt100gr.]

With the 88TMK now in the horizon, I wanted to get a better feel for a slower burning powder in my chamber.

H4350 and N555 have been great in this barrel so far with the 77tmk.
Neither of the above powders shot 80gr eldm or 88eldm better than 3moa.

I selected H1000 as likely a good powder to use when the 88TMK drops.

I loaded 10x 88gr eldm with 43.0gr H1000
5x 77gr TMK with 44.5gr H1000
And another 5x 77gr TMK with 45.0gr H1000

Alpha brass.
Winchester magnum primers.
All bullets seated 20thou short of the lands. Lands were measured by dropping one each of the above bullets into the chamber. Then taking a once fired piece of brass, swabbing the inside of the neck with red loctite, and then inserting into the chamber and closing the bolt. After loctite cured, dummy cartridge was removed, labeled, and cartridge base to 0.224 ogive was measured.

I’m looking for pressure, and general velocity with today’s test.

Velocity from my 1/7 16” barrel with saami freebore:
88eldm 43.0gr H1000: 2920fps. Primers had plenty of radius. Piss poor group size.
77tmk 44.5gr H1000: 3042fps. Decent groups. 20-30mph crosswind.
77tmk 45.0gr H1000: 3120fps. Decent group. 20-30mph crosswind. Primers starting to lose outer radius.
View attachment 987195

Takeaway:
88eldm, too inconsistent for me. 3 different powders have all failed to give a hunt-able group. BC on paper seems so attractive. BC in real life is effectively 0.00 since it never makes it past the 100yd phase.

88TMK MAY do well with H1000. I’ll probably target 43-44 gr during initial testing. Hoping to see 2925-3000fps out of this 16” barrel.

77tmk remains the standout bullet for me. This is the third powder that has put good groups and good velocity with this bullet.

This is awesome. Thank you.

I have a 16" 22Creed barrel on the way. I have a pretty good pile of 77TMKs, I want the 88eldm to work, and am also hoping for real availability of the 88TMK. I'm long on H1000 and H4350. Thank you for this info.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

What barrel twist?

I'm still trying to understand why this seems to keep happening with 88 ELD-Ms in .22 Creedmoor. It may be related to barrel twist: Hornady loads them for .224 Valkyrie (1:7" SAAMI) and .22 ARC (1:7" SAAMI) but not for .22 Creedmoor (1:8" SAAMI).

My most accurate 88 ELDM load was from a tikka 8 twist barrel.

In what I’ve seen there doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to it, other than one thing that sort of has stood out with the 80 Xs and 88 Ms. And is likely more coincidental than anything else…

The “slower” they are traveling leaving the muzzle, the easier time I’ve had getting them to shoot more accurately. I first noticed this in shooting highly reduced loads to simulate long range impact velocities. Slowly worked up the speed from there and found that in general, trying to get close to “max speed” seems to be part of the inherent issue.

 

[nm.otter]

It's possible they just don't do well with a lot of overbore:

 

[43.6N]

What barrel twist?

I'm still trying to understand why this seems to keep happening with 88 ELD-Ms in .22 Creedmoor. It may be related to barrel twist: Hornady loads them for .224 Valkyrie (1:7" SAAMI) and .22 ARC (1:7" SAAMI) but not for .22 Creedmoor (1:8" SAAMI).

1/7 twist.
Saami freebore.

All I know is that Hornady tried with the 224 valk first with the 88’s. They had consistency issues right out the gate. Ultimately came out with the 22arc which allegedly fixed whatever the issue with 88’s was.

Now we are dealing with the same thing in the 22creed. I’ve heard that the 22GT doesn’t have any issue shooting the 88’s accurately, but can’t provide any firsthand data to that effect.

I think it has to be a combination of an inherently unstable bullet, combined with some chamber/throat geometry that exacerbates the baseline instability.

 

[43.6N]

It's possible they just don't do well with a lot of overbore:
View attachment 987246

I’ll load a few 88eldm into 223 brass next.
I have a 1/7.5 223wy barrel from LS wild that stacks the 80eldm. If there is any hope for my supply of 88’s it will be from this barrel.

 

[Kaleb]

The only thing I've shot them in has been a 1-7 223(edit to add its 2580 with 18" barrel). My 1-8 22-250AI was about dead so I didn't bother. I am curious how my 1-7 22creed does with them when it gets back.

 

[Gstew1930]

The only thing I've shot them in has been a 1-7 223. My 1-8 22-250AI was about dead so I didn't bother. I am curious how my 1-7 22creed does with them when it gets back.
View attachment 987277

What kind of velocity did you get with the 223 & whats the barrel length?

 

[Kaleb]

2,580 and its 18". I should have put that. I went back and added it.