The 22 creedmoor thread

[huntnful]

I’ll see myself out of the 22 Creed thread and meet you in the middle in the 6mm one

6 PRC???? Deal.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’d actually counter that that isn’t the case. I’ve had 2 sheep now where the wind was difficult to call in mountainous terrain and the POI was such, that 3” further off would have meant a wounded animal.

600 yards, 88 (3100) vs 77 (3200). 10 mph full value wind.
Difference is .25 mil. That’s 5” if my math is right.

Put another way, it’s the same wind drift difference as shooting a 112 MB from a 6 Creedmoor (2900) and a 6 UM (3200).

So, it seems logical the way you have framed it- and that is how most think about it. However, it isn’t telling you the truth. The difference between bullets lies entirely in how close you call the wind- I.E, if you miss the wind call by 2mph, what is the difference between the two bullets?

My 22CM and loads. 5k DA, 600 yards and a 2mph drift (error)

88gr ELD-M at 3,200fps is 3.5 inches of drift:



77gr TMK at 3,385fps is 4.4 inches of drift:



The difference is only 0.9 inches- and notice that both require the same .2 mil windage correction. That means with a 2 mph error, you can’t shoot the difference.

No one was a bigger chaser of the highest BC than I until 10’ish years ago. However, lots more shooting has shown that it doesn’t make nearly the difference in the field that people think it does until beyond the terminal range of most combinations.

Now as long as it is a decent BC for the task, I weigh other aspects as more important- primarily predictable flight behavior and terminal performance. Both aspects the highest BC bullets tend to struggle with at times.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I was also hoping to shoot the 88's out of my 22CM and ended up with the 80 ELDM because it wouldn't shoot the 88's. I attributed that to my 8tw barrel, but maybe the 88's are just finicky?

What twist barrel are you shooting?

88 Ms, 80 Ms, and 80Xs at 22CM speeds can be very particular on what barrel shoots them “well”. Twist rate and barrel OEM don’t seem to really matter in my use so far.

 

[AndrewMT34]

So, it seems logical the way you have framed it- and that is how most think about it. However, it isn’t telling you the truth. The difference between bullets lies entirely in how close you call the wind- I.E, if you miss the wind call by 2mph, what is the difference between the two bullets?

My 22CM and loads. 5k DA, 600 yards and a 2mph drift (error)

88gr ELD-M at 3,200fps is 3.5 inches of drift:
View attachment 963871


77gr TMK at 3,385fps is 4.4 inches of drift:
View attachment 963872


The difference is only 0.9 inches- and notice that both require the same .2 mil windage correction. That means with a 2 mph error, you can’t shoot the difference.

No one was a bigger chaser of the highest BC than I until 10’ish years ago. However, lots more shooting has shown that it doesn’t make nearly the difference in the field that people think it does until beyond the terminal range of most combinations.

Now as long as it is a decent BC for the task, I weigh other aspects as more important- primarily predictable flight behavior and terminal performance. Both aspects the highest BC bullets tend to struggle with at times.

Thanks Form. What length barrel are you shooting? I'm not anywhere near those speeds out of a 17" barrel.

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks Form. What length barrel are you shooting? I'm not anywhere near those speeds out of a 17" barrel.

20”. Both are top end of all season, all weather “safe”.

 

[mtnbound]

Considering moving back to a 6 CM. The 22 CM is so finicky with the highest BC bullets that I end up shooting the 80’s, which definitely give up wind drift and terminal range to the 112 MB’s. Ie. 8 vs 9 mph gun and nearly 100 yards.

My 22 CM barrel is a UM 18”.
I could try a PBB from LS Wild I guess to see if the 88’s would work ok in it, though an 88 @ 3000 still doesn’t match a 112 Match Burner @ 2900.

Wound channel differences with any of these projectiles are irrelevant to me. They all work exceptionally well on sheep/deer/moose. The highest gun number for forgiveness in mountain terrain & winds is the highest priority.

I have one of the LS Wild barrels, and it likes everything, including the '88s.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have one of the LS Wild barrels, and it likes everything, including the '88s.

I’ll have to get one next I suppose. I have 4x 22cm’s- ACE, Brux, Tikka barrels- none of them shoot the 88gr ELD-M or 80gr ELD-X under 2 MOA.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I have one of the LS Wild barrels, and it likes everything, including the '88s.

The LS Wild barrels are good. But they aren’t inherently “better” than any other in what I’ve seen.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

So, it seems logical the way you have framed it- and that is how most think about it. However, it isn’t telling you the truth. The difference between bullets lies entirely in how close you call the wind- I.E, if you miss the wind call by 2mph, what is the difference between the two bullets?

My 22CM and loads. 5k DA, 600 yards and a 2mph drift (error)

88gr ELD-M at 3,200fps is 3.5 inches of drift:
View attachment 963871


77gr TMK at 3,385fps is 4.4 inches of drift:
View attachment 963872


The difference is only 0.9 inches- and notice that both require the same .2 mil windage correction. That means with a 2 mph error, you can’t shoot the difference.

No one was a bigger chaser of the highest BC than I until 10’ish years ago. However, lots more shooting has shown that it doesn’t make nearly the difference in the field that people think it does until beyond the terminal range of most combinations.

Now as long as it is a decent BC for the task, I weigh other aspects as more important- primarily predictable flight behavior and terminal performance. Both aspects the highest BC bullets tend to struggle with at times.

The voice of reason and facts .
Thanks buddy.
Maybe I’m over thinking my 80 ELD-Ms that shoot great from the 22 CM barrel I have.

 

[mtnbound]

The LS Wild barrels are good. But they aren’t inherently “better” than any other in what I’ve seen.

I have no other experience with the different barrels, so I'm basing my observations on what I have seen with mine compared to others in this thread. I suppose the next one could just as easily not like them.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I have no other experience with the different barrels, so I'm basing my observations on what I have seen with mine compared to others in this thread. I suppose the next one could just as easily not like them.

Treasure that barrel I’ve got a Mcgowen 8 twist with an 80 ELDX load that shoots better than I do. I try to be nice to it

 

[mtnbound]

I’ll have to get one next I suppose. I have 4x 22cm’s- ACE, Brux, Tikka barrels- none of them shoot the 88gr ELD-M or 80gr ELD-X under 2 MOA.

I feel like I got a really good barrel and have been spoiled by it, which will suck if the next one doesn't do the same.

 

[Formidilosus]

The voice of reason and facts .
Thanks buddy.
Maybe I’m over thinking my 80 ELD-Ms that shoot great from the 22 CM barrel I have.

Haha. That thing does shoot well.

 

[Formidilosus]

As for 22 versus 6mm…


6 millimeter is the right millimeter.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

The voice of reason and facts .
Thanks buddy.
Maybe I’m over thinking my 80 ELD-Ms that shoot great from the 22 CM barrel I have.

It’s always nice when the local junior college teacher mouth breathes in like 5 posts (me) and then the real professor comes in with one post and makes it all make sense.

 

[mtnbound]

Treasure that barrel I’ve got a Mcgowen 8 twist with an 80 ELDX load that shoots better than I do. I try to be nice to it

I kind of feel bad that this barrel has been so easy to develop loads and is far more accurate than I am. It probably should be with someone who can shoot better, but I'm not giving it up.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I kind of feel bad that this barrel has been so easy to develop loads and is far more accurate than I am. It probably should be with someone who can shoot better, but I'm not giving it up.

Nahh. You earned it. Not sure what you did. But you earned it

 

[mtnbound]

As for 22 versus 6mm…


6 millimeter is the right millimeter.

Let's not start comparing millimeters; God knows where that's going to lead to.

 

[The Guide]

What cartridge was the 88 ELDM designed for? It seems that I've observed many with the 22CM not be happy with the accuracy but others who have used it in the 223, 223AI, 22 ARC, 22BR,and 22 GT be very happy with it. Could it be that the 88 is picky at Creedmoor speeds but more forgiving at speeds 200 to 400 fps lower? I haven't had time to test the 88's from UM in my 22CM yet but they shoot great from my 22 ARC in factory Hornady ammo.

Jay

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Am I hearing that Ben wants to shoot something that’s decent in the wind???? I have extra 195 Berger’s and N570 in the lab over here

Man I’m here for this scene. Poor sheep.