Texas school shooting

[dsotm]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529864724401336321

 

[norcan]

^
Yeah they for sure only had handguns and it definitely wasn’t because they were simply total cowards or anything.

 

[BjornF16]

Slight respite from condemning the cops first on scene...

I posted this earlier (in a long thread), but it is important to note that the Supremes (in the past) have said that police have "no duty to protect"...notwithstanding any motto they may have on their vehicles.

Let me repeat...

"No duty to protect".

"Police have no duty to protect any individual, but only a general duty to protect society, and cannot be held personally liable for failure to protect an individual."
South v. Maryland, 1855 / Warren v. District of Columbia, 1981

Warren v. District of Columbia

Warren v. District of Columbia - 444 A.2d 1

law.justia.com

The general duty owed to the public may become a specific duty owed to an individual if the police and the individual are in a special relationship different from that existing between the police and citizens generally.

Wonder why so many folks are adamant about their 2A rights?

 

[3325]

Devils Advocate Position: Let’s just say the 2A is repealed and there is is a total gun ban. Not “common sense” gun legislation or “reasonable” gun legislation, but a total ban. That will never happen, but go along with me just for the sake of argument.

How will a total gun ban prevent a mass shooting from happening today, tomorrow, this time next year, or 10 years from now? It won’t. Because there are already a lot of guns and ammo out there, so many that door to door confiscation is logistically impossible without a suspension of posse comitatus and an imposition of martial law. Now maybe that can be arranged for but then you will a resistance movement and a civil war.

It would take at least decades to have any effect if it ever did. It would require a least generational change. An entire group of people would have to grow old and die and be replaced with people with different values, attitudes, and opinions about guns.

So for the immediate problem, hardening likely targets is the only thing that is likely to have any effect on a mass shooter.

 

[wind gypsy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529864724401336321

Serious question for the officers amongst us, do cops not typically have an AR platform weapon in their car?

 

[3325]

Serious question for the officers amongst us, do cops not typically have an AR platform weapon in their car?

My department does and we anticipate the probability of a single officer active shooter response. Having a partner is advantageous but I’m not counting on it.

 

[NB7]

Sig Sauer M400 .223 and Rem 870 in ours. BUT...that's only good if you're already in the car or right near it. Something immediate happens and you're not, it's most likely not going to be at your disposal

 

[*zap*]

Just about every patrol has long guns in it.

 

[wind gypsy]

Devils Advocate Position: Let’s just say the 2A is repealed and there is is a total gun ban. Not “common sense” gun legislation or “reasonable” gun legislation, but a total ban. That will never happen, but go along with me just for the sake of argument.

How will a total gun ban prevent a mass shooting from happening today, tomorrow, this time next year, or 10 years from now? It won’t. Because there are already a lot of guns and ammo out there, so many that door to door confiscation is logistically impossible without a suspension of posse comitatus and an imposition of martial law. Now maybe that can be arranged for but then you will a resistance movement and a civil war.

It would take at least decades to have any effect if it ever did. It would require a least generational change. An entire group of people would have to grow old and die and be replaced with people with different values, attitudes, and opinions about guns.

So for the immediate problem, hardening likely targets is the only thing that is likely to have any effect on a mass shooter.

I'm not arguing for any form of ban but a total ban would absolutely prevent SOME shootings. These things are happening from mentally ill people. If a mentally unstable person wasn't able to get a gun immediately there are numerous opportunities to avoid a disaster. Maybe they decide they don't want to go through the trouble to find one illegally. Don't have the $ for increased black market value. Get busted trying to buy one illegally. Maybe they kill themselves before finding a simple way to kill others at the same time.

 

[BjornF16]

Uh oh...trouble brewing for Uvalde cops...

That said, it now appears as if several cops may have entered the school to save their own children while the shooting was unfolding and the parents were being held back.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Yoder]

25 years ago here in Australia we had the Port Arthur massacre...30 odd people murdered, 25 injured. Our government banned semi auto rifles and shot guns soon after and tightened up gun ownership laws..despite a massive uproar from people like myself. I may be wrong but I don't think we've had a mass shooting since. My now 30 year old son, also a keen hunter, can't believe that we used to be able to walk in and buy a semi automatic high powered rifle off the shelf. A bit like his generation can't believe that everyone used to smoke cigarettes in restaurants, cabs, at sporting events etc. Wheras nowadays we find it totally unacceptable. Society changes eh.

You murder rate stayed pretty much exactly the same. In fact it actually increased the first few years. So you can feel all warm and fuzzy that people are getting killed with hammers, knives and baseball bats instead of guns. Maybe some of those murders could have been stopped with a gun.

After seeing what happened in your country with covid and the BLM/antifa riots here, there is no chance in hell I'm turning in even a single magazine. We are not Australia. Most people here are not going to just hand them over. I'll wait to see what states become 2nd Amendment sanctuary states and just move there.

This quote is perfect for your current situation: "Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one will have noticed"

 

[3325]

Something for consideration: There are those, and I’m among them, who consider the Bill of Rights as not granting anything but formally recognizing “unalienable” rights endowed by their Creator. I know many, perhaps most, people here know this. But I still run into people who don’t.

That’s a philosophy that is personal, dare I say spiritual, and not constrained by legalities. So if you believe in “reasonable” this or “common sense” that when it comes to gun control, you will be confronted and opposed by those who believe certain rights are unalienable and endowed by their Creator.

So until you can walk on water or be killed and rise again, you are going to meet opposition. There it is.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

So this guy was sending messages on Facebook messenger saying he was going to shoot his grandmother, then that he had done it and that he was going to shoot up a school over a 30 minute period, we all know that Facebook is watching so why wasn’t this guy stopped in that 30 minute period before he left for the school. Maybe stopping him didn’t fit the narrative, remember the old democrat trope, “never let a good tragedy go to waste”


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[BuzzH]

You murder rate stayed pretty much exactly the same. In fact it actually increased the first few years. So you can feel all warm and fuzzy that people are getting killed with hammers, knives and baseball bats instead of guns. Maybe some of those murders could have been stopped with a gun.

After seeing what happened in your country with covid and the BLM/antifa riots here, there is no chance in hell I'm turning in even a single magazine. We are not Australia. Most people here are not going to just hand them over. I'll wait to see what states become 2nd Amendment sanctuary states and just move there.

This quote is perfect for your current situation: "Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one will have noticed"

Can you point me to a case where 21 people were killed with a hammer or bat at a rate of 1 every 8-20 seconds? Your argument holds no water.

 

[Newtosavage]

Serious question for the officers amongst us, do cops not typically have an AR platform weapon in their car?

Typically yes, but not always. Depends on the department and small dept's like Uvalde can be pretty stingy on equipment sometimes. Generally there is at least one long gun, often a shotgun.

 

[BjornF16]

Can you point me to a case where 21 people were killed with a hammer or bat at a rate of 1 every 8-20 seconds? Your argument holds no water.

Not 21...but enough

Knife Attack at Chinese Middle School Leaves Nine Children Dead (Published 2018)

The episode, one of the worst stabbings in recent years, revived fears about school safety, a perennial concern.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Bearwhisky]

25 years ago here in Australia we had the Port Arthur massacre...30 odd people murdered, 25 injured. Our government banned semi auto rifles and shot guns soon after and tightened up gun ownership laws..despite a massive uproar from people like myself. I may be wrong but I don't think we've had a mass shooting since. My now 30 year old son, also a keen hunter, can't believe that we used to be able to walk in and buy a semi automatic high powered rifle off the shelf. A bit like his generation can't believe that everyone used to smoke cigarettes in restaurants, cabs, at sporting events etc. Wheras nowadays we find it totally unacceptable. Society changes eh.

How has your your willingness to succumb to tyranny worked out for you, eh? Been fun living in the worlds largest prison during covid?

Society does change. Constantly. Its up to the grit and morals of the people to determine whether that is for better or worse.


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[rodney482]

Serious question for the officers amongst us, do cops not typically have an AR platform weapon in their car?

I have a full auto (w selector switch) HK UMP .45 w optic. I prefer it for building clearing. Also an AR for longer threats

All officers within my county carry patrol rifles.

 

[wind gypsy]

Uh oh...trouble brewing for Uvalde cops...

That said, it now appears as if several cops may have entered the school to save their own children while the shooting was unfolding and the parents were being held back.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

No surprise but it seems there's a bunch of conflicting reports for people jumping to conclusions. From your linked article:

Two Uvalde police officers were among the first on the scene - engaging the shooter after he had entered the building when they were both shot and injured."

When the cops came, the cop said: ‘Yell if you need help!’ And one of the persons in my class said ‘help.’ The [shooter] overheard and he came in and shot her," a boy who hid under a table in his classroom told KENS5 news. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting."

 

[Bearsears]

25 years ago here in Australia we had the Port Arthur massacre...30 odd people murdered, 25 injured. Our government banned semi auto rifles and shot guns soon after and tightened up gun ownership laws..despite a massive uproar from people like myself. I may be wrong but I don't think we've had a mass shooting since. My now 30 year old son, also a keen hunter, can't believe that we used to be able to walk in and buy a semi automatic high powered rifle off the shelf. A bit like his generation can't believe that everyone used to smoke cigarettes in restaurants, cabs, at sporting events etc. Wheras nowadays we find it totally unacceptable. Society changes eh.

This is exactly what Ronald Reagan was talking about in his freedom speech. "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.

I pray we in the United States never surrender to tyranny for the perceived illusion of safety the way your country did. Your government was able to run roughshod over your citizens for the last two years precisely because you surrendered your rights to semi auto rifles. If you and your fellow citizens cant see that then Australia is truly lost to authoritarian regimes for all time.