Tanget Theta 3-15x50mm Scope Evaluation

[CaptArab]

The only issue that manifests with the SWFA fixed powers is bending the turret from very hard drops. Scopes still function fine, but it can look a bit wonky.

I had this happen to a 1-6. Empty, bolt open on a barricade, I stepped asside to pick up some brass, had a heavy stellite can front flip the rifle forward with significant centrifugal force- turret absorbed 100% of the impact.

Bent so hard it was almost impossible to turn it with bare hands. Had an adhesive failure in an early atacr too. Made it look like crap but both optics still functioned fine and the manufacturers quickly resolved my issues.

Im good at breaking things I suppose.

Anyhow, thanks for the testing, Form

PS- you should post this on the hide, we can place bets on how fast you get banned

 

[wind gypsy]

I had this happen to a 1-6. Empty, bolt open on a barricade, I stepped asside to pick up some brass, had a heavy stellite can front flip the rifle forward with significant centrifugal force- turret absorbed 100% of the impact.

Bent so hard it was almost impossible to turn it with bare hands. Had an adhesive failure in an early atacr too. Made it look like crap but both optics still functioned fine and the manufacturers quickly resolved my issues.

Slipped on Ice on flat ground and "drop tested" a 3-9 SS last nov. Something bent and the elevation turret got bound up. SWFA is replacing it under warranty but here we are a year later and no more have shipped so I'm still waiting.

PS- you should post this on the hide, we can place bets on how fast you get banned

Yeah, don't think it'd be well received.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’d be interested in Trijicon Credo (2.5-15). Mine has been in the truck a few thousand miles and bounced around a bit. Will get to range soon to see if it moved.

Trijicon scopes generally do well. Not bomb proof, but are about what most people believe a good scope is. Drops give little to no problems.

PS- you should post this on the hide, we can place bets on how fast you get banned

Nah. The point isn’t to start stuff, it’s to show what’s happening that would be useful for hunters.

 

[Formidilosus]

Slipped on Ice on flat ground and "drop tested" a 3-9 SS last nov. Something bent and the elevation turret got bound up.

Sideways impacts on turrets will break most. Not a foot or two drop, but 6-7 foot drop on hard ground at an angle that “bends” the turret will snap most right off. The SWFA’s bend and usually, though not always. still work. And I haven’t seen any loose zero from it.
I’m using a 6x that a buddy’s cat knocked off a high bench and the turret caught a block of concrete. It bent it a good 20-25°. The scope was still zeroed, but the turret didn’t want to turn. I just bent it mostly back straight. It’s got a spot in the revolution that is slightly tighter, however it has went more than 20,000 rounds since with no hiccups…. Including the drop tests.

 

[Rob5589]

Sideways impacts on turrets will break most. Not a foot or two drop, but 6-7 foot drop on hard ground at an angle that “bends” the turret will snap most right off. The SWFA’s bend and usually, though not always. still work. And I haven’t seen any loose zero from it.
I’m using a 6x that a buddy’s cat knocked off a high bench and the turret caught a block of concrete. It bent it a good 20-25°. The scope was still zeroed, but the turret didn’t want to turn. I just bent it mostly back straight. It’s got a spot in the revolution that is slightly tighter, however it has went more than 20,000 rounds since with no hiccups…. Including the drop tests.

So what does the SWFA do that others costing 5 times more do not?

 

[wind gypsy]

Sideways impacts on turrets will break most. Not a foot or two drop, but 6-7 foot drop on hard ground at an angle that “bends” the turret will snap most right off. The SWFA’s bend and usually, though not always. still work. And I haven’t seen any loose zero from it.
I’m using a 6x that a buddy’s cat knocked off a high bench and the turret caught a block of concrete. It bent it a good 20-25°. The scope was still zeroed, but the turret didn’t want to turn. I just bent it mostly back straight. It’s got a spot in the revolution that is slightly tighter, however it has went more than 20,000 rounds since with no hiccups…. Including the drop tests.

In my sample of one, it lost zero by roughly 3 MOA and the elevation and magnification ring were bound up. 4' fall left side impact on the frozen ground.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m getting some questions so I want to give a PSA if someone is going to try checking zero retention by dropping. Done wrong, you will physically break any scope made.

Use soft ground, and put a padded mat to drop it on. 18” and 36” is all it takes. Go higher than that or use hard ground, and you are at serious risk of breaking off a turret or breaking of the eyepiece. Both are just held on by some threads, they are susceptible to shearing forces. This is all scopes made- though I haven’t seen a NF NXS turret or eyepiece shear.


The purpose of the drop “test” isn’t to abuse or destroy a scope. It came about because scopes were losing zero in the field for no apparent reason. Normal handling, up to a trip or fall and the rifle hits the ground, or leaned against a tree and falls over- all of those things, and seemingly nothing, was causing zero shifts or outright failures.

After a lot of experimentation, broken scopes, and an almost unbelievable amount or ammo, we came to the current “test”. No scope that has passed the drop test until the Meopta, has ever lost zero in use past it. The Meopta passed and then went another 6k’ish rounds before failing. That isn’t a good example because with was just one scope. One scope is not enough to know anything good. The flip side is that 100% of scopes that do not hold zero through the drop test, have failed epically- continuous lose of zero, failure to return to zero, or outright failure. And I don’t mean the scopes that were drop tested, I mean multiple brand new ones that never got “abused”.

What has been seen repeatedly, is if a scope model doesn’t hold zero and work correctly through the tracking, RTZ, and drop test- that model of scope will lose zero and/or fail at some point with normal handling.

 

[Formidilosus]

So what does the SWFA do that others costing 5 times more do not?

Well im not a scope engineer, buti believe it’s three primary reasons. Good durable materials for the erector, they are a very simple design, and good QC/QA.

Materials.

A lot of companies choose cheap parts for the erector assymbly, or more recent some components that are “quality” but were chosen for weight. There is one scope that is relatively popular here that the company chose plastic in a part that should have been brass or steel, and they did it just to save weight- because they had an arbitrary weight goal. That scope failed catastrophically.


Simple.

This can not be overstated. Features, complicated zero stops, short length, light weight, high zoom ratios, etc. all cost something and make it much more complicated. If you ever look at a scope split sideways it’s a wonder that any of them work at all. Then compare a normal 3x ratio design to a short and compact 8x ratio design and it’ll give you siezures.

The dudes screaming for 2-20x mag, short length, light weight, high rev turrets, spectacular glass, etc etc. YOU are one of the reasons scopes are so fragile. An original Weaver K4 or K6, old B&L, etc. can survive and continue to work in situations where no top end Leupold, Zeiss, Swaro, or Vortex hunting scope can. The Nightforce NXS Milspecs we’re without a doubt the most reliable and durable scopes made. Right behind them are the NXS’s. Compare that to the NX8 (especially the 2.5-20x). The NX8 is in general a reliable and durable scope. It gives few mechanical problems, but has some trade offs with ease of use due to its short design and 8x ration. However, compared to the old NXS models I have seen far more issues. I have never personally seen an NXS fail or lose zero. They of course have a failure rate, but I’m seeing a hundred plus used heinously- I’ve never seen it. I have experience with a couple dozen NX8 2-5-20 and 4-32’s. Two have had issues, both on the zero stop, and I know of someone that’s had to to send theirs back a couple of times.

The point is, while the NX8’s are probably more reliable than anyone’s else’s scopes, they are not as reliable as the NXS.




Good QC/QA.

I have no observed knowledge of how SWFA does QC/QA with their OEM. I have Jay heard and been told. It’s a mature design, relatively simple, the parts are robust and durable, and they have a good process to catch flaws before they are shipped.

In my sample of one, it lost zero by roughly 3 MOA and the elevation and magnification ring were bound up. 4' fall left side impact on the frozen ground.

Yep. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. Any shear impact on a very hard surface will break most turrets.

 

[Tod osier]

Very clear there is an issue with the erector. The first shot was high, recoil reset it, and then it was low due to being adjusted. This is very common with scopes.

Imagine the heartache saved in the shooting community if everyone understood this. I didn't for decades...

The number of times in the past 30 years I touched up my rifles' zero only to have it end up in the wrong spot after that couple clicks over and a few up... that was before I realized it was an actual problem with the scopes.

Thanks for laying information like this out there.

 

[woods89]

Imagine the heartache saved in the shooting community if everyone understood this. I didn't for decades...

The number of times in the past 30 years I touched up my rifles' zero only to have it end up in the wrong spot after that couple clicks over and a few up... that was before I realized it was an actual problem with the scopes.

Thanks for laying information like this out there.

I agree. I always used to think you had to shoot a few shots after adjustments to let it "settle".

Now I have a Nightforce SHV 3-10 on one rifle and a SWFA 3-9 on the other, and so many things have gotten simpler.

I really appreciate this kind of content as well.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus Can you post up baseline groups for comparison with your known good scope on that same rifle? Say two or three 10-round groups? Or just 20 - 30 rounds in whatever combination that you like, and I can aggregate. No dropping or dialing or anything.

Sure here are the last two ten round groups. 113yds. A few days apart.





Here’s when mounting and zeroing the Minox. Again, 113y. Left is after borestight, right is after initial adjustment. Both 5 rounds.





And for history, here’s on from 2017. Same gun, different lot of ammo-






If you want more, I can get them. I have groups dating back to 2017, and I won’t cherry pick

 

[Formidilosus]

31 rounds today before I stopped.

Checked zero, top left right square-



Went ahead and completely remounted scope. 9 rounds-




Adjusted down .2, left .1 mils, shot a round, bottom left-




It over adjusted, again. Just to check, went to the bottom right square- did not touch the turrets. Without touching anything, the next round impacted .3 mils left. So I adjusted right .3. Now go to the top right dot, the very next three rounds are on the bottom right corner of the dot.



So I adjusted up .1, left .1, and fired 5 rounds-



Then, did not touch it, went back to this bottom right dot and fired one round, it is the low hit-




Whatever. So with remounting the scope I wanted to check RTZ and the drops.


Three squares in a line. Center square as proof, right for RTZ, left for drops.

Zero check shot- top right. Did not touch scope. Fired three more, in square-




Neat. Screw it, we’ll see what it does-

Checked RTZ by dialing 300 mils up and down, and left and right between each shot for 5 rounds-




Drop “test” again, keep in mind, from the RTZ to first drop, was 30 seconds and nothing was touched-


That’s 7 rounds.


Let the rifle cool, spun the turrets and parallax a few times to make sure they were good, and shot this on the white tape….



Con’t….

 

[Formidilosus]

The whole thing. Orange hits are from first day.




I shot more. It is randomly and consistently jumping POI .2-.4 mils. It’ll hold for a bit, then shift. Sometimes it shifts in the middle of a groups. Sometimes it holds for 13-14 rounds. I will mount a different scope tomorrow and shoot.

 

[Formidilosus]

Are all the groups on the KRG targets from the same zero or was anything adjusted in between? I’ll throw out the 2017 group as I’m assuming different zero from different lot?

Same zero for the top two targets.

 

[eoperator]

You are hurting my feeling (just ordered a tt h).

 

[handwerk]

Thanks for taking the bunch of time it took to put this together.

 

[JGRaider]

Dang.....that freaking thing has a mind of it's own. Good stuff Form.

 

[WesCAtoll]

Hate that this is another "would you try one of these scopes‽" posts but it would be interesting to see a March scope tested. They claim up to 1000g of shock testing before sending a scope out.
I'd send you mine to destroy but ya know, I'm rather fond of it.

Ps love this thread thank you for the info

 

[Woodrow F Call]

You are hurting my feeling (just ordered a tt h).

Be sure to fill out a hurt feelings report and post in a new thread so it can be routed properly.

 

[Formidilosus]

Through the scope pics. Dear are at 830-840 yards, overcast day, but full daylight. It’s just for the reticle- through the scope pics do not show “glass”.


3x







10x





15x






The reticle is a poor choice for general use. In use, it’s really more like a 10-15x scope because below that, you need illumination. I’m sure as TK stated the other reticles are better (they’d all but have to be), and that’s not really my focus here anyways. Just notable as thin reticles do not bother me generally.