Tacoma engine trouble and a new truck

[mtwarden]

Can’t help with the current mechanical issues, but can commiserate on finding a MT. My dealer searched the entire country when I purchased my 2012, no go- had to order it from the factory and took three months. Was worth the wait.

 

[Billy Goat]

An exhaust manifold leak should be pretty obvious. So unless you have been hearing it, I'd dismiss that.

 

[Marbles]

Can’t help with the current mechanical issues, but can commiserate on finding a MT. My dealer searched the entire country when I purchased my 2012, no go- had to order it from the factory and took three months. Was worth the wait.

Yeah, Peterson Toyota out of Boise had several manuals on order and I was able to claim one that should be available in September. The dealership in Anchorage had an manual on order that would be available end of October, but in came with $5,500 in extras I did not want plus a $2,000 "market adjustment" making the one in Boise $7,500 cheaper. The day after I called about it someone else put a deposit down on the one coming to Anchorage.

No manuals where available in Washington or Oregon. Missoula had one listed in inventory. I did not call them as it had a few things I did not want, but I'm guessing like everywhere else it was one scheduled to be built and not on the lot.

I had similar trouble in 2014 when I bought my corolla, but the manual saved me almost $2,000 on that car.

 

[flyinsquirel]

No way I'd do head gasket only. Go ahead and do a ring and bearing kit while your in there. You should be able to rent a cylinder hone.

 

[IdahoElk]

Thanks everyone, you have helped me think things through. A none refundable deposit has already been put down on a new truck, so that is settled, but I would still like to fix the old one. Plus, if I don't like the new one it will be worth more than I payed for it once I drive it up to AK from Boise, so no point in eating that $1000 deposit.


I did not. Out of curiosity, what would that change? I'm not a mechanic, so I'm legitimately curious if I'm missing something. I was thinking I already know coolant is leaking into the exhaust somehow, so even if I found a leak somewhere else I would still feel the engine needed work.

Something else I did not mention in the original post, when testing compression cylinder three had noticeable moister coming out through the spark plug hole by the end. I was turning it over 5-10 times for each cylinder, an noticed a few droplets at cylinder 3 after it had turned over about 15 times.

I did not pull the fuse for the fuel system, so some fuel was going into the cylinders, but number 3 stood out as wet compared to the others. It was not enough fluid to be able to distinguish if it was fuel/oil/coolant or some mixture of those.

This combined with the fact that new plugs fixed the misfire for a few minuets has me thinking the problem is not electrical.



You have me wondering about trying stop leak. I have never used it because I know it can clog things up. But, if I already believe the engine needs a rebuild, would it hurt to try it? I'm inclined to still stay away from the stuff, but I'll mull it over.



I'm inclined to agree. As I said above, I'm not a mechanic, so I'm going to give my thinking so that people can punch holes in it. I can also do more research and find the answers to some of these questions. But I'll ask just to see what others know.

I'm inclined to say if I'm pulling the head I should go ahead and rebuild the engine considering the age. It would also be nice to have the head and block checked for cracks and see if anything needs to be machined.

Now, I can get the head off without removing the engine from the truck. Would pulling the head, replacing the head gasket, and putting the head back on be only a 1 or 2 day job if I left it in the truck? An OEM gasket set would run me $350 (not sure if I would need the whole set). Also, would I need to retune the engine if I just pulled the head and replaced the gasket?

It sounds like (from a TacomaWorld thread) that the 2.7L is susceptible to burnt valves if an exhaust manifold crack is left too long. The O2 sensors have been a problem since 2014, and that can be caused be a cracked manifold.

Does it make since to just replace the head gasket and leave rings and such alone? Can I check that the head and block matting surfaces are flat without taking them to a machine shop if I pulled the head to replace the gasket? (Edit: yes, that would be easy). If they are not flat could I just put the head back on and save the new gaskets for a future rebuild?

How would I check for burnt valves?

Anyway, I have my research cut out for me, but if anyone has an answer I would appreciate that easy button.

That would just confirm a head gasket but it looks like that's the problem and you figured it out.

 

[Billy Goat]

No way I'd do head gasket only. Go ahead and do a ring and bearing kit while your in there. You should be able to rent a cylinder hone.

Then rebuild the head too. I'm sure exhaust valves could use replacement.


If doing rings, bearings, and hone no reason to stop there.

 

[WRM]

Pull it, have block checked and proceed from there. Might as well do it right if you intend to keep it. Or, there's some swaps for higher HP/different mfr crate motors, I'm sure. Until you know whether there is an issue with that block, not much sense in putting money into it. Then, if block good, rebuild it.

 

[Marbles]

Figured I would update this.

I picked up a 2021 TRD Off Road six speed manual the end of September. I'm happy with the truck.

As drivability of the new Tacomas came up; over all it drove fine. However, removing the accumulator from the clutch helped with consistency and feel. I also flashed an ECU tune, which helped with throttle response and consistency. Neither of those were required, but together they make driving the truck more enjoyable. I drive like an old man, so I'm talking about feel, not speed.



Not decided if I will keep and repair the 97 or sell it. I want to keep it, so that is what I'm leaning towards.

 

[mtwarden]

Thanks for the update. Glad they’re still making manuals; my 2012 is going to be replaced in a year or two and definitely want another manual

 

[YZF_88]

I have a 2021 Off-Road Double cab with 4k miles on it. Definitely a nice truck. I bought the OV tune software. Man did it smooth out the transmission! Also, the flexibility of switching tunes whenever I want is great. The performance tune and running a higher octane fuel DEFINETLY makes a difference.

With all that said, I do miss the interior room of the F-150 I sold to get it. If the market conditions weren't so crazy, I'd figure out how to go back.

 

[live2huntelk]

Something to think about on the 1997 Tacoma that is using oil and antifreeze... the oil and antifreeze will eventually kill the O2 sensors and catalytic converters. Failed O2 sensors will cause lean/rich issues which will cause poor running and further damage the catalyst. Plugged catalyst can cause back pressure and other engine issues. I had 2 vehicles that had oil and antifreeze kill the O2 sensors and then the catalyst. Not sure how the catalyst replacement is, but something to factor in cost if deciding to keep.

see article on oil/antifreeze in exhaust

What Causes a Catalytic Converter to Fail?

Since there are no moving parts on a catalytic converter, you would expect they would be fairly durable and long lasting and they are even with all of the advancements in catalytic converter technology, they still fail. At Viper Motorsports in Weathe

www.vipermotorsports.com

 

[Idaho_Potato]

You guys complaining about throttle response manual mid size pickups...WTF? It's not a sports car.

I've got a 21 Sport with the MT. Yeah, I've driven faster. That's not why I bought it. Also, you guys trading Toyotas for Chryslers...yuck.

I'm eyeballing a Powerstroke. Anybody looking for a MT Taco with an Alu-Cab canopy?

 

[Marbles]

You guys complaining about throttle response manual mid size pickups...WTF? It's not a sports car.

I've got a 21 Sport with the MT. Yeah, I've driven faster. That's not why I bought it. Also, you guys trading Toyotas for Chryslers...yuck.

I'm eyeballing a Powerstroke. Anybody looking for a MT Taco with an Alu-Cab canopy?

Why do you want to off load a truck you bought within the year?

My issues with the throttle had nothing to do with vehicle speed. It is annoying to push the peddle and have a half second of lag, my 4 cylinder 97 did not have that and I see no reason why a V6 should. It is also annoying to be smoothly accelerating on an icy road, then have the truck suddenly spin the tires because you hit 3000 rpm, if I wanted a sudden increase in power I would push the peddle further. Basically, the problem for me was inconsistency. The accumulator maked the clutch inconsistent, and the stock throttle mapping was inconsistent.

Now, if I wanted power in a midsized truck I would put a Magnuson supercharger in it and regear to 5.29. Neither of those interest me.

The truck now drives as well as my 2.7L 97 and my 4 cylinder Corolla. The truck was more than adequate without the improvement. Honestly it had gotten much better after driving over 3500 miles, enough so that I almost did not tune it. But, I had already bought the software to tune it, and now that it is tuned I'm really glad I did.

Sports cars are for idiots with a death wish, smart people with a death wish stick with two wheels for speed.

 

[Idaho_Potato]

Why do you want to off load a truck you bought within the year?

I've heard on this forum and elsewhere that used market is over MSRP/sticker. I don't really believe that, but if someone wants a Taco bad enough to prove me wrong I would listen. Never in my lifetime has a car gone up in value when you drive it off the lot.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

For everyone complaining about the throttle response, check out the Pedal Commander. I have one on my 2013 TRD Sport. It is plug and play. Doesn’t change the ecu, but controls the throttle input. Easily programmed for the feel that you want by pushing a button. Makes my truck way more responsive and enjoyable to drive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[5MilesBack]

For this "fly by wire" manual transmission........do you actually feel it going into and out of gears while shifting? Or is it just an idiot stick?

As for throttle response.......that has nothing to do with power, speed, or sport's cars. It's the vehicles "immediate" response to the pedal......whether accelerating or decelerating. Even my 33 year old Toyota has great throttle response.........even though it only came with 150hp from the factory. It is definitely NOT a sport's car........although it does corner really really well even at high speeds.

 

[Marbles]

I've heard on this forum and elsewhere that used market is over MSRP/sticker. I don't really believe that, but if someone wants a Taco bad enough to prove me wrong I would listen. Never in my lifetime has a car gone up in value when you drive it off the lot.

Mine Bluebooks for $43-47K, drove it off the lot for $40K. It does make me tempted to try to sell it, but I would have to wait another 2-4 months to get a replacement. So, not worth it for me to even try.

For this "fly by wire" manual transmission........do you actually feel it going into and out of gears while shifting? Or is it just an idiot stick?

As for throttle response.......that has nothing to do with power, speed, or sport's cars. It's the vehicles "immediate" response to the pedal......whether accelerating or decelerating. Even my 33 year old Toyota has great throttle response.........even though it only came with 150hp from the factory. It is definitely NOT a sport's car........although it does corner really really well even at high speeds.

The transmission is not fly by wire (just the throttle and transfer case). The stick feels similar to my 97 and you can feel it go into gear. The clutch is also a hydraulic linkage from the master cylinder (which is mechanically attached to the pedal) to the slave cylinder.

The accumulator that is on the clutch line to smooth out the flow to the slave cylinder made the clutch unpredictable as the faster the fluid flows, the more it bleeds off. Removing it leaves a direct connection that responds consistently to input.

 

[Idaho_Potato]

Mine Bluebooks for $43-47K, drove it off the lot for $40K. It does make me tempted to try to sell it, but I would have to wait another 2-4 months to get a replacement. So, not worth it for me to even try.

Does that mean you can walk in to a dealer with Blue Book numbers and trade it at near that value? Over sticker? Genuinely asking.

I dont have the patience or will to sell a car on Craigslist. My sticker was $34. My guess is that there are not too many people out there with $35k liquid that are not willing to wait out the dealership.

Kelly Blue Book seems too similar to Zillow. They think they have the info to convince people where the market is at. Always seems they are a little high, especially when a company like Zillow gets squirrely and buys up a bunch of the product they are trying to price in the first place. Does KBB sell cars?

 

[Marbles]

Does that mean you can walk in to a dealer with Blue Book numbers and trade it at near that value? Over sticker? Genuinely asking.

I dont have the patience or will to sell a car on Craigslist. My sticker was $34. My guess is that there are not too many people out there with $35k liquid that are not willing to wait out the dealership.

Kelly Blue Book seems too similar to Zillow. They think they have the info to convince people where the market is at. Always seems they are a little high, especially when a company like Zillow gets squirrely and buys up a bunch of the product they are trying to price in the first place. Does KBB sell cars?

Blue book is based on current sales trends. So while no sale is a sure thing, that is what trucks similar to mine have been selling for on the used market. Walking in to a dealer the lower end of that range (or perhaps a little less) as what you could reasonably expect to be able to negotiate. The numbers I gave were based on private party sale.

I hate selling things, so personally I would probably end up getting less if I tried to sell mine.

People can pull a loan out through their bank to buy a vehicle from a private party. As the seller, you would be handed a check. I would call the bank and verify before signing over the title though.

 

[Wrench]

Do not put stop leak in it.

My family owned an automotive machine shop for decades and nothing good comes from that stuff.

Your symptoms sound so very classic head/gasket. You can lose compression between holes and take some coolant in the process. It can erode a channel in the block in a worst case scenario, but nothing that devcon won't cure.

Personally, I'd pull the head and assess the ridge and bore crosshatch before I condemned it. Grind and deck the head if the bore isn't chewed up....and roll for another 250k.