T & K Suppressors Altus™ and Vorix™

[ckt3]

Sounds like you guys are doing it right. Pew Science is the gold standard for suppressor measurement quality and objectivity. Love to hear that you stand behind your products’ transparent evaluation in that way. Looking forward to reading the reports.

 

[alexnelon]

Yeah independent testing is pretty much mandatory to make any kind of statement about dB.

I can affect the reading on a 2255 by 10-15 dB either direction at will just through mic orientation. Not to even mention mic placement or introducing or moving physical objects around the area within or adjacent to the field of measurement.

I bet the cans are great regardless.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

This seems like a good thread to mention the Principle of Charity.

If there is a problem with the setup that results in the reported values being measured too low, that is probably something best resolved by independent testing or examination of the setup, not accusations of dishonesty. Given that T&K is paying for independent testing from Pew, I expect we will get accurate values that make sense before too long. And if there is something that can be done, in the meantime, to independently check their testing setup, I'm all in favor of it. But it's not like anyone "needs" to buy one of these suppressors right away, and I get a good feeling from T&K's posts that they are open to outside eyeballs looking at their setup, so I expect that any issues can be sorted out fairly easily.

 

[TandKHunting]

Yeah independent testing is pretty much mandatory to make any kind of statement about dB.

I can affect the reading on a 2255 by 10-15 dB either direction at will just through mic orientation. Not to even mention mic placement or introducing or moving physical objects around the area within or adjacent to the field of measurement.

I bet the cans are great regardless.

Independent testing absolutely adds value, and we welcome it. Mic orientation, placement, and environmental factors can influence impulse readings, which is why we follow defined mic positioning and conduct testing in open fields away from reflective surfaces.

Our approach is simple: use consistent placement, measure averaged LZpeak values, and report what the instrumentation records under those defined conditions. Variability can occur day to day due to atmospheric and environmental changes, but what ultimately matters is consistent high performance across properly controlled testing.

I completely understand the skepticism. There’s a lot of marketing in this industry, and not always a lot of methodology disclosed alongside the numbers. That’s exactly why we publish weighting, mic placement, host platform, ammunition, and averaged LZpeak values.

Healthy skepticism is fair — we just believe the answer to that is transparency and repeatable data, not hype.

 

[TandKHunting]

Had a great talk with @Ryan Avery, whom will be testing our VORIX suppressor personally, while using his own meter. It sounds like he is wanting to do a comparison with @Unknown Suppressors and @AirlockIndustries and publish a full report on his findings on Rokslide.

I will say, I met with the owners of @Unknown Suppressors and @AirlockIndustries.

Both guys and companies are stand up in my book. My hope is that we can give three solid suppressors choices for guys on Rokslide. Support those who support the forum.

Hope everyone is having a good time at Western Hunt if you are here.

 

[TandKHunting]

This video clip is from our internal LZpeak impulse testing using an HBK 2255. This particular day was a bit gusty, with wind moving primarily from the shooter toward the muzzle (rear → muzzle). We also tested on a separate day that was calm and colder.

For both the VORIX (black suppressor in first clip) and ALTUS (coyote suppressor in second clip), we ran 5-shot averages over multiple days. As expected with real-world outdoor testing in South Dakota, there were small variances due to wind, temperature, and general atmospheric changes — but nothing that created a significant contrast in average dB numbers between calm and gusty conditions.

Platform details:

• Tikka .308
• 22” barrel
• Hornady 168gr supersonic
• Ear mic positioned ~6” right of shooter
• Open terrain, minimal reflective surfaces
• Foam windscreen on mic

On gustier strings we saw slightly more shot-to-shot spread (which is normal), but the overall averages remained consistent across test days. If wind were artificially “helping” numbers, we would expect to see a noticeable drop compared to the calm day — we didn’t.

We understand skepticism in this industry. That’s why we document conditions and run multiple-day testing. These aren’t single “hero shots.” They’re repeatable 5-shot averages captured under real-world conditions.

As always, independent third-party testing will ultimately speak for itself — but in the meantime, we’re committed to showing how and where the data was collected.

My intent as of right now is to submit the VORIX to PEWScience for the .308, 5.56, and .300 Blackout. Where it places? Who knows....as only the universe may know that as of right now. But, we are seeing some great performance on both Super Sonic / Sub Sonic on AR and bolt platforms.

And as I previously stated, Ryan will get his hands on it and test it on his own platform against others.

 

[alexnelon]

This video clip is from our internal LZpeak impulse testing using an HBK 2255. This particular day was a bit gusty, with wind moving primarily from the shooter toward the muzzle (rear → muzzle). We also tested on a separate day that was calm and colder.

For both the VORIX (black suppressor in first clip) and ALTUS (coyote suppressor in second clip), we ran 5-shot averages over multiple days. As expected with real-world outdoor testing in South Dakota, there were small variances due to wind, temperature, and general atmospheric changes — but nothing that created a significant contrast in average dB numbers between calm and gusty conditions.

Platform details:

• Tikka .308
• 22” barrel
• Hornady 168gr supersonic
• Ear mic positioned ~6” right of shooter
• Open terrain, minimal reflective surfaces
• Foam windscreen on mic

On gustier strings we saw slightly more shot-to-shot spread (which is normal), but the overall averages remained consistent across test days. If wind were artificially “helping” numbers, we would expect to see a noticeable drop compared to the calm day — we didn’t.

We understand skepticism in this industry. That’s why we document conditions and run multiple-day testing. These aren’t single “hero shots.” They’re repeatable 5-shot averages captured under real-world conditions.

As always, independent third-party testing will ultimately speak for itself — but in the meantime, we’re committed to showing how and where the data was collected.

My intent as of right now is to submit the VORIX to PEWScience for the .308, 5.56, and .300 Blackout. Where it places? Who knows....as only the universe may know that as of right now. But, we are seeing some great performance on both Super Sonic / Sub Sonic on AR and bolt platforms.

And as I previously stated, Ryan will get his hands on it and test it on his own platform against others.

Your readings from the meter are artificially low because the microphone orientation is incorrect for the application.

For free field impulse metering (ie, a gunshot outdoors) the microphone should be pointed at the sound source, not directly up or down.

The microphone is technically omnidirectional for most applications, but at zero weighting, high frequencies are rejected similarly to a cardioid (the actual pickup pattern is in the manual) which will result in a lower overall pressure reading.

It could be off by anywhere from 2-12 dB, so just be aware of that because when other people meter it in the future and it comes back higher, that’s why.

 

[TandKHunting]

Your readings from the meter are artificially low because the microphone orientation is incorrect for the application.

For free field impulse metering (ie, a gunshot outdoors) the microphone should be pointed at the sound source, not directly up or down.

The microphone is technically omnidirectional for most applications, but at zero weighting, high frequencies are rejected similarly to a cardioid (the actual pickup pattern is in the manual) which will result in a lower overall pressure reading.

It could be off by anywhere from 2-12 dB, so just be aware of that because when other people meter it in the future and it comes back higher, that’s why.

That’s an interesting point regarding mic orientation. When I’m back from Western Hunt Expo, we can adjust the microphone incidence per manufacturer free-field guidance and capture another string on video so there’s no question left on the table.

Orientation can influence high-frequency response by a few dB depending on angle, but we would not expect dramatic 10+ dB swings from that variable alone. That said, we’re always open to refining methodology and sharing additional data if it improves clarity.

At the end of the day, we’re committed to being fully transparent. We’re willing to post follow-up testing, share methodology, and provide independent third-party results. Ultimately, consistent data across defined conditions is what matters.

 

[robby denning]

Had a great talk with @Ryan Avery, whom will be testing our VORIX suppressor personally, while using his own meter. It sounds like he is wanting to do a comparison with @Unknown Suppressors and @AirlockIndustries and publish a full report on his findings on Rokslide.

I will say, I met with the owners of @Unknown Suppressors and @AirlockIndustries.

Both guys and companies are stand up in my book. My hope is that we can give three solid suppressors choices for guys on Rokslide. Support those who support the forum.

Hope everyone is having a good time at Western Hunt if you are here.

Sign me up to see that test!