Synthetic insulation vs fleece

[fbhandler]

I’m changing up my 2nd/active layer. I’m trying to get more warmth while stationary (under a puffy and shell) but more breathability while hiking. I’m pretty set on goin with a vest but I’m stuck on wether I should go insulation or fleece. I’d only be interested in synthetic insulation and there are many choices as far as insulation weight/face fabric etc, not so sure what’s out there for fleece as it’s kind of a new idea for me. Any insights between the two would be appreciated !

 

[fightthenoise]

Man I’m in the same boat. Right now my 2nd layer is a Klamath but I find myself only really using it when I’m stopped. Between my pack and my bino harness I’m sweating my eggs off if I wear it while moving, even in cold temps. It’s not a warm piece really either so when I’m stopped I’m wishing it was warmer. So like you, I’m looking into active insulation that can move moisture and heat out but is also warm when stopped. I dunno if it exists.

My current research has brought me to wind shirts so that’s what I’m looking into right now.

 

[tdot]

For Thermal Management like you are asking for, the best option is probably to take your insulation off while hiking hard. If I'm still hunting or less intensive hiking then the most versatile insulation piece that I've used is Kuiu Kenai. Patagonia, Arcteryx also use the same fabric to make similar jackets, though they lack pit zips, so they dont vent as well. But pretty similar otherwise. There may be others out there with the same fabric. It breathes very well and then if I stop I put on a shell of some sort and it boosts the total heat retention of the system a huge amount.

I like fleece only if I know I will be soaked. I dont know of anything else that can insulate as well when its wet.

 

[rbljack]

My layering system for the last few years has gone like this:
base layer first lite long sleeve llano, or chama hoody or both in colder weather. Over this I have the older fleece 1/4 zip (cant remember the name of it). That right there is what works for me when actively hiking with a pack on in steep terrain and temps down to 30's. It has the long 1/4 zip also, so I can unzip and vent a bit with the base layers and fleece if needed without having to take the pack off. When I stop, that's when the puffy would go on, unless it was pretty darn cold. I also have the storm tight jacket which can go on as an outer layer if needed (rain or wind when glassing).
Looking at that klamith, I like the idea that they now have a fleece layer with a hoody on it! I may upgrade to that as my fleece layer next year!
I also may try to run the springer vest or puffy vest instead of the fleece and see how that works. Like yall have said....not sure if that perfect mid layer piece exists. The llano base and chama mid layer has been a pretty good set up for me though. Add the fleece (sometimes when hiking or in the bag if warm) and puffy when at destination for sitting/glassing.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I have a sitka kelvin active I like for that role. Very light. Breathes well. Not terribly windproof. Could use some more stretch or stretch panels down the sides or in the shoulders, etc. Seems to be a good balance of warmth when stationary without turning into a furnace / sweat box on the move. I did not care for the design on the vest version though - half sleeves were a bit odd to me.

Not what you were mentioning but I picked up a couple of Berber fleece lined gear this year. Liked my sitka traverse hoody enough to buy a black version to where around town. Really like it a lot and used it quite a bit this year.

Still a big fan of fleece in some form. My favorites are Patagonia r1 and the sitka heavyweight stuff.

I am very interested in some nonhunting brands hybrid offerings. A buddy has a OR fleece with light puffy insulation in the chest, back and top of shoulders. Seems like a cool way to blend the best of both worlds.

 

[fbhandler]

So far it sounds like the fleece option is the way to go... I had the Klamath for a short period of time and ran into the same problem, to hot while moving to cold when stopped. Plus, I hated putting it on over my merino base as it would always hang up. This is one reason why I’m interested in the vest format, potentially being able to add insulation to my over all system when stoped, but greater ventilation/breathability when moving, I’ve never had a fleece vest though. The Kuiu Kenai ultra vest is potentially a winner, but I’m looking at Arcteryx and Montbell vests as well. Liked the nano puff specs too

 

[fbhandler]

For Thermal Management like you are asking for, the best option is probably to take your insulation off. The most versatile insulation piece that I've used is Kuiu Kenai. Patagonia, Arcteryx also use the same fabric to make similar jackets, though they lack pit zips, so they dont vent as well. But pretty similar otherwise. There may be others out there with the same fabric. It breathes very well and then if I stop I put on a shell of some sort and it boosts the total heat retention of the system a huge amount.

Right now I’m running the FL guide jacket as my 2nd layer. This over my base (light or med. wht. merino) this is enough for me in any temps while climbing. I find the guide is pretty wind resistant so I’m assuming it’s going along way to trap body my heat. Problem is, it’s cold when I stop (sweaty) and isn’t add anything when stopped (warmth wise) so I’m trying to sneak in a little more insulation into my over all system (base, active, puffy, shell) but at the same time still be able to climb...

PS... There are a lot of times I’m only in my base layer, this is a cold weather issue

 

[tdot]

Personally I have almost completely moved away from soft shells, because of this issue. They are too warm while active and not enough heat while stopped. I have one softshell from Patagonia that I still use regularly, it's as thin as possible, so provides very limited insulation, yet is highly breathable and will block most wind. It does not have a membrane. I can wear it while active in the cold. I think it's a rock climbing jacket. And throw an insulation piece under it and then I have a highly breathable and fairly wind resistant system.

 

[fbhandler]

Personally I have almost completely moved away from soft shells, because of this issue. They are too warm while active and not enough heat while stopped. I have one softshell from Patagonia that I still use regularly, it's as thin as possible, so provides very limited insulation, yet is highly breathable and will block most wind. It does not have a membrane. I can wear it while active in the cold. I think it's a rock climbing jacket. And throw an insulation piece under it and then I have a highly breathable and fairly wind resistant system.

Agreed...

I’ve had a hard time moving away from the guide jacket as it’s been so versatile, but I’m moving to a strict 4 layer system and I just can’t make it fit. Guess I finally stoped trying

As far as a choice between a fleece or insulated vest... google seems to bring up the obvious points, fleece being more breathable, insulated will be warmer.

 

[Shraggs]

For cold weather active mid layer, I tried 3. Kelvin active, sawtooth and ll bean commando fatigue sweater in merino wool. The sawtooth was very impressive as a warm layer hiking! The surprise for me was the sweater! Warmest static and breathes and wicks better than my fleece. I kept those two and glad I did. It was so cold last week rifle in Montana and hard to move fast in deep dnow that I used both at Same time.

For early season I have a Patagoina nano hybrid (like a saw tooth, but lighter weight insultive wise wise and or a halsteadv fleece

.

 

[tdot]

Agreed...

I’ve had a hard time moving away from the guide jacket as it’s been so versatile, but I’m moving to a strict 4 layer system and I just can’t make it fit. Guess I finally stoped trying

As far as a choice between a fleece or insulated vest... google seems to bring up the obvious points, fleece being more breathable, insulated will be warmer.

Fleece can be a dangerous piece, some of it has a membrane in it. Gore Windstopper is the first that comes to mind. This makes it operate like a completely different garment and personally I feel that it loses it versatility.

The Kenai jacket I mentioned uses a fabric that I think is probably one of the biggest game changers for insulation in along time. More breathable then fleece, warmer then fleece, lighter, dry's quickly. It's awesome. A bunch of other companies use the fabric under different names. The stuff is awesome.

The only time I use down is when it's well below zero, and I wont be active. The only time I use fleece is now in thinner mid layers.

 

[Piscatory_4]

My layering system for the last few years has gone like this:
base layer first lite long sleeve llano, or chama hoody or both in colder weather. Over this I have the older fleece 1/4 zip (cant remember the name of it). That right there is what works for me when actively hiking with a pack on in steep terrain and temps down to 30's. It has the long 1/4 zip also, so I can unzip and vent a bit with the base layers and fleece if needed without having to take the pack off. When I stop, that's when the puffy would go on, unless it was pretty darn cold. I also have the storm tight jacket which can go on as an outer layer if needed (rain or wind when glassing).
Looking at that klamith, I like the idea that they now have a fleece layer with a hoody on it! I may upgrade to that as my fleece layer next year!
I also may try to run the springer vest or puffy vest instead of the fleece and see how that works. Like yall have said....not sure if that perfect mid layer piece exists. The llano base and chama mid layer has been a pretty good set up for me though. Add the fleece (sometimes when hiking or in the bag if warm) and puffy when at destination for sitting/glassing.

Are you thinking Halstead tech fleece? I like that piece too.

 

[rbljack]

Are you thinking Halstead tech fleece? I like that piece too.

Yes that's the one! I have it packed away and couldn't recall the name. As someone mentioned above, the only downside I know of is that it will pull the other layer off with it. They kind of stick together so you end up pulling two layers, and then have to put the one back on. Small issue, but it does happen.

 

[fbhandler]

Fleece can be a dangerous piece, some of it has a membrane in it. Gore Windstopper is the first that comes to mind. This makes it operate like a completely different garment and personally I feel that it loses it versatility.

The Kenai jacket I mentioned uses a fabric that I think is probably one of the biggest game changers for insulation in along time. More breathable then fleece, warmer then fleece, lighter, dry's quickly. It's awesome. A bunch of other companies use the fabric under different names. The stuff is awesome.

The only time I use down is when it's well below zero, and I wont be active. The only time I use fleece is now in thinner mid layers.

Thanks for the conformation here... I’ve seen some pieces that have the wind stopper membrane etc. and was intrigued by them but figured that it would also have to cut down on breathability. I know this is optimal for some folks in certain situations but it’s definitely part of the problem I’m having. Seems like synthetic insulation and their face fabric have come along way and with the ability to insulate “and” breath/move moisture, sounds like a win/win.

Currently, I’m not using any down... I would like to for the weight savings and packability but I’m always battling moisture either from the inside or out..

 

[5MilesBack]

As far as a choice between a fleece or insulated vest... google seems to bring up the obvious points, fleece being more breathable, insulated will be warmer.

If you only put it on when you need it, then you shouldn't have to worry about the breathable part. If you're sweating while on the move then you don't want extra insulation. When you stop, let yourself cool down a little bit and then throw on the insulation.

 

[fbhandler]

If you only put it on when you need it, then you shouldn't have to worry about the breathable part. If you're sweating while on the move then you don't want extra insulation. When you stop, let yourself cool down a little bit and then throw on the insulation.

Agreed... but because this is my second layer and I’m only ever running my base under it, I always need it (cold weather).

 

[5MilesBack]

Agreed... but because this is my second layer and I’m only ever running my base under it, I always need it (cold weather).

You don't need it if you're soaking it with sweat. You're sweating because you're generating too much heat. Take it off when you're sweating.....or better off, before you're sweating. When I used to hunt the later rifle seasons, I'd always start out in the single digit temps with just my base layers and then whatever my normal hunting shirt and pants were. I'd still sweat. But when I'd stop or slow down, I'd let myself stop sweating and then put on the heavy insulation.

 

[fbhandler]

You don't need it if you're soaking it with sweat. You're sweating because you're generating too much heat. Take it off when you're sweating.....or better off, before you're sweating. When I used to hunt the later rifle seasons, I'd always start out in the single digit temps with just my base layers and then whatever my normal hunting shirt and pants were. I'd still sweat. But when I'd stop or slow down, I'd let myself stop sweating and then put on the heavy insulation.

I’m only sweating because of the guide jacket. Believe me when it’s to warm to wear my second layer, I’m only in my base... What we’re talking about here is when the base layer isn’t enough and something like the guide jacket etc. is to much while moving but not adding anything or very little while stoped, it’s really a different issue. Surley you’ve been out in the mountains when a single base layer isn’t enough but jumping right into your puffy isn’t the answer either. It’s that in between layer I’m looking at. Now I know some folks only run a 3 layer system, but I’m just not there yet.

 

[fbhandler]

Double post

 

[5MilesBack]

I’m only sweating because of the guide jacket.

Then that's easy........lose the guide jacket. Fleece is perfect for keeping just warm enough while hiking.