Switching to floorless.

[WyoBC_99]

My issue with floorless, if you have to use a bug bivy or nest it kinda takes away the point of going floorless. At that point weight savings is negated.

It doesn't negate the trips during the seasons when you don't need that stuff though - like Fall hunts after the mosquitoes are frosted out.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

True, but you have the option of dropping weight and going without a nest and, with a bivy sack, the option to not set up a shelter at all. I have a tarp and bivy sack combo that is 14 oz total. I have a Sea to Summit big nest and I carry it in late July and August, especially after big snow years, but don’t need it outside of that time frame.

Man the bivy/tarp has me intrigued. What bug biy from sea to summit are u using?

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Not necessarily. A DST tarp for example is 16 ounces. A Borah bivy is 6 ounces. That’s about a $200 investment for a 22 ounce shelter. I don’t know of many tents that offer the same room or flexibility for $200 at that weight.

Yes, I agree I was referring to floorless shelters such as tipi or the likes of the Silex. I agree if you go tarp and a bivy no tent will touch that in regards to weight. I should have clarified that.

 

[Poser]

Man the bivy/tarp has me intrigued. What bug biy from sea to summit are u using?

It’s called the “Nano”, it’s a pyramid style net that weighs 2.9 oz. You just need a single anchor point.

 

[GunsAreFun]

Yes, I agree I was referring to floorless shelters such as tipi or the likes of the Silex. I agree if you go tarp and a bivy no tent will touch that in regards to weight. I should have clarified that.

Never been a fan of the pyramids. So much of the space is unusable because of the wall angle, which just means dead weight. They look cool.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

So, looks like most tarps are 13oz - 17oz. Bug biby 6oz. Most take 8 - 15 stakes. msr ground hog stake is 0.5oz.

on light side
13oz (tarp)
6oz (bivy)
4oz (stakes)
= 23oz

on heavy side
17oz
6oz
7.5oz
= 30.5oz

For me I would definitely air on the side of the heavier tarp/biby setup. That would be anywhere from 3 - 8 ounces lighter than most of my other shelters I would normally bring.

 

[AK Troutbum]

How about this:

2 person mid, w/guy lines= 12.65 oz.

8 mini groundhog stakes and 6-9” CF stakes= 4.2 oz.

Bivy= 4.5 oz.

Total wt. = 21.35 oz.

I’ve weathered some pretty crazy storms (including a 10 day Kodiak goat hunt), in simple shelter/bivy combos like the one listed above.


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[tdot]

For a single guy with a dog (short term will be AT camping, long term goal is a western hunt) would you go with the Ultamid 2 or 4? Any opinion on whether you think a dog’s nails on the dyneema floor of the nest would be an issue?

I hav the Ultamid4, chose it as I felt it was more versatile for family trips and hunting with other guys. I'll probably end up selling my solo tent and run the Ultamid 4 even on solo trips. I like the fact I can stand up in it.

My normal tents were all torn by my dog. I'd bet the DCF would be punctured as well. But the DCF us easier to fix and would generally be harder to puncture. You could run a 1/2 nest and keep the dog in the dirt.

One trick I've heard of for bugs is to spray some permethrin in the top of the cone of the pyramid tents. Since the flying insects congregate up there, itll kill em.

 

[ctmillwo]

I hav the Ultamid4, chose it as I felt it was more versatile for family trips and hunting with other guys. I'll probably end up selling my solo tent and run the Ultamid 4 even on solo trips. I like the fact I can stand up in it.

My normal tents were all torn by my dog. I'd bet the DCF would be punctured as well. But the DCF us easier to fix and would generally be harder to puncture. You could run a 1/2 nest and keep the dog in the dirt.

One trick I've heard of for bugs is to spray some permethrin in the top of the cone of the pyramid tents. Since the flying insects congregate up there, itll kill em.

Thank you! Bought my 4 yesterday it’s on the way, I’ll use that trick! Any tips you’ve only picked up through experience for camping with your dog?


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[Voyageur]

I'll chime in here.
Best advice I can give you is to jump in and try floorless out. It's the only way you'll ever know for sure.
I've owned a tipi/tipis for about 15 years or so. At one time I had a SO 4 man. Have always had a Kifaru 8 man. For a couple years I owned them both for use in different scenarios. We've had as many as 6 people and 4 dogs in the 8 man and 3 people and 2 dogs in the 4 man. My favorite setup was solo in the 8 man during November deer season.
Pros to floorless (Only speaking for myself here):
No worries about tracking in mud and such
Can pitch over the top of stumps, bushes, large rocks, etc.
Great for when you have dogs with you.
Something about sleeping in direct contact with the ground....hard to explain but you feel a connection to nature
Cons to floorless (Again, only speaking for myself):
Condensation during the seasons you don't need the stove
The large number of stakes required to pitch a tipi
The large footprint of a tipi...extremely hard sometimes to find an area where the tipi would fit. More than once we had to pitch it in a "reduced" size by doubling up stake loops.
The slope of the walls reduces much of the living space. For me this is by far my biggest gripe with a tipi.

As far as the mosquito/spider, mouse problems some anticipate it was never that big of a deal. One time we had a mouse or chipmunk get in the tipi and chew a corner off a quart size Ziploc bag of dog food. While spiders and other crawlies were always present they normally weren't that big a deal. One time I did get a spider bite that required antibiotics to clear it up. On another trip the only spot we could find to pitch the tipi was over an area infested with small ants. Not a big deal as we waited until after dark when the ants had retreated underground for the day before we put our sleeping bags inside and we made sure we were up and packed before the ants started stirring in the morning.
I was always surprised that mosquitoes were not a problem. Even when pitching over grass or high country tundra like ground they were never a problem. The one exception to that is a night we still talk about. Three of us were on a week long pack trip in July and in the middle of the night we woke up simultaneously to the buzzing and biting of mosquitoes. When we turned on our headlamps we could see our tipi was literally filled with a cloud of mosquitoes. It took us 15 minutes or so of serious swatting to make the place fit for sleeping again. The only thing we could figure out is maybe there was a hatch??? Still not sure on that one.
Initially I swore I would never use a floored shelter again. My tents sat at home and gathered dust. Gradually though, over time, I drifted back to using my tents more and more until now I hardly use my tipi. Why? Not because of any shortcomings on the part of tipis. It's just that for the majority of my use a floored tent works better. Obviously others' opinions/needs/uses differ. It's great to have options.
To reiterate, you will only know if floorless is right for you by giving it a go.
Hope this helps.

 

[GunsAreFun]

You forgot to mention one big Pro:

You can pee inside the tent if you don’t want to have to crawl outside because of cold, precipitation, or general laziness.

 

[Poser]

You forgot to mention one big Pro:

You can pee inside the tent if you don’t want to have to crawl outside because of cold, precipitation, or general laziness.

In an absolute downpour, this is great. I’ve only had to do it a handful of times, but otherwise, I would have had to put on full rain here to even open the tent door.

 

[GunsAreFun]

This thread inspired me to go out and play with a new tarp pitch that I modified from a SO YouTube video. The Tyvek sheet is 3’x7’ for reference so there is just under 4x8’ of usable space. The entrance is almost 6’ tall and so easy to go in and out with no center pole.

It is a super efficient use of space. I think when I buy a new (higher end) tarp, I will have a panel pull added to eliminate the trekking poles inside.

 

[wind gypsy]

My issue with floorless, if you have to use a bug bivy or nest it kinda takes away the point of going floorless. At that point weight savings is negated.

I agree to a point. Something like the zpacks duplex or TT Li models is a little better balanced when inners are included IMO. That said, the weather resistance of a good 'mid is hard to beat.

I'm not a big fan of being wrapped up in a bivy in bear country. It sucks having to zip myself out of a bag and a bivy in a hurry.

 

[Usi05]

I used my buddies fly creek 2 last year in Idaho and it was solid.

I hated getting out to piss. When we had 2 guys, it was small. Was nice for one.

I was cold. Not the tents fault but I spent a lot of time thinking about a stove.

Bought a few floor less I’ve tried since then and I really like it.

I just got a super tarp and have a borah Bivy. It’s not a huge savings but I would think this combo has to come in lighter than BA fly creek but it has more space and can add a stove.


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[AK Troutbum]

I used my buddies fly creek 2 last year in Idaho and it was solid.

I hated getting out to piss. When we had 2 guys, it was small. Was nice for one.

I was cold. Not the tents fault but I spent a lot of time thinking about a stove.

Bought a few floor less I’ve tried since then and I really like it.

I just got a super tarp and have a borah Bivy. It’s not a huge savings but I would think this combo has to come in lighter than BA fly creek but it has more space and can add a stove.


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I'm assuming it didn't get very windy? It only took one significant storm on Kodiak, at about 4,000', with the Fly Creek flattened down on top of me all night while it poured rain, for me to get rid of it as soon as I returned home. I fully expected that tent to blow apart, which surprisingly enough it didn't, but I wouldn't say that it's built for wind either.

 

[Usi05]

I'm assuming it didn't get very windy? It only took one significant storm on Kodiak, at about 4,000', with the Fly Creek flattened down on top of me all night while it poured rain, for me to get rid of it as soon as I returned home. I fully expected that tent to blow apart, which surprisingly enough it didn't, but I wouldn't say that it's built for wind either.

We had some wind and it did ok. My buddy ran it during a pretty severe storm and thought it handled well if I recall.

Btw, your posts and messages were extremely helpful for me in making the change!


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[AK Troutbum]

We had some wind and it did ok. My buddy ran it during a pretty severe storm and thought it handled well if I recall.

Btw, your posts and messages were extremely helpful for me in making the change!


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It's kind of hard to show wind with a still photo, but this is what the tent looked like the day after the storm. It was still blowing a little when I took the pic., but the night before during the storm, the tent was practically flattened down on top of me.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

OP If you plan on using it up higher elevations in the Mountains then yes probably give it a go, but if you want to run in at lower elevation in AK then the versatility a lightweight double wall is probably still the best bet. Some of the double walls let you pitch them light with just the fly and ground cloth so you could have that option as well. I've been looking at the outdoor vitals 1p.
When I lived in the Pacific NW mosquitos were hardly ever a problem and they love me, but up in AK and back in Michigan they would carry me off in the night without some mesh.
If I was going floor less I would probably start with a lightweight tarp/shelter and a bug or a hybrid custom bivy. Borah gear is a good place to look for a bivy.

 

[ctmillwo]

Unfortunately HMG sent me the wrong gear..... I am completely heartbroken in all honesty, I was excited beyond belief. I imagine they’ll help make things right next week.


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