Suppressor Testing??

[HuntHarder]

According to a reputable source that tests in this industry, SAAMI has a lot of flaws. I can't speak on it personally, but that's from someone with 20 years of testing experience.

Flaws or not, a standard would be nice. I still think the best testing is side by side comparison, unedited. Especially with tons of company's now making cans.

Do you know some of the flaws the guy you know identified?

 

[TandKHunting]

Flaws or not, a standard would be nice. I still think the best testing is side by side comparison, unedited. Especially with tons of company's now making cans.

Do you know some of the flaws the guy you know identified?

I don't know the specifics. He said it in random convo and I didn't ask to elaborate. He's well respected though.

A standard only exists if it's mandated by law or everyone agrees to it. I don't see either of those happening. I agree with you though to a certain extent. Testing cans side by side can be beneficial, but two cans can sound similar while one can is clearly better on the meter. The human ear won't pick up the difference between a few dB's, but it's significant when comparing good cans. Look at PEW Science. The top 5-10 cans get down to small performance fluctuations.

There is a lot of context to be said on it too. Are both cans the same diameter? A 30 cal can will not perform the same as a 6.5 can. A direct thread can will not perform the same as a can that is HUB compatible.

That's why it's important to compare can specifics and not just compare two random models that don't share the same physical characteristics.

 

[omicron1792]

I don't know the specifics. He said it in random convo and I didn't ask to elaborate. He's well respected though.

A standard only exists if it's mandated by law or everyone agrees to it. I don't see either of those happening. I agree with you though to a certain extent. Testing cans side by side can be beneficial, but two cans can sound similar while one can is clearly better on the meter. The human ear won't pick up the difference between a few dB's, but it's significant when comparing good cans. Look at PEW Science. The top 5-10 cans get down to small performance fluctuations.

There is a lot of context to be said on it too. Are both cans the same diameter? A 30 cal can will not perform the same as a 6.5 can. A direct thread can will not perform the same as a can that is HUB compatible.

That's why it's important to compare can specifics and not just compare two random models that don't share the same physical characteristics.

First I’ve heard of hub va direct thread causing a change in suppression.

 

[TandKHunting]

First I’ve heard of hub va direct thread causing a change in suppression.

I'm not saying it's a huge change. But it can fluctuate performance.

For example, when testing our HAVIC before sending it to PEW Science, we wanted to see if we could improve muzzle numbers on one prototype. We made very minor changes. I'm talking tiny to some small ports. And it changed performance by 1-2 dB.

Minor changes to any physical characteristic of the can will change data. Will you notice it with your ear? No. But will you notice it on a meter? Absolutely.

Direct versus HUB - Direct can provide less paths for gas to travel out of. A HUB can provide more. Different mounts can change the length from muzzle to blast baffle, which can certainly impact performance, first round pop, etc.

 

[omicron1792]

I'm not saying it's a huge change. But it can fluctuate performance.

For example, when testing our HAVIC before sending it to PEW Science, we wanted to see if we could improve muzzle numbers on one prototype. We made very minor changes. I'm talking tiny to some small ports. And it changed performance by 1-2 dB.

Minor changes to any physical characteristic of the can will change data. Will you notice it with your ear? No. But will you notice it on a meter? Absolutely.

Changing ports and baffles absolutely. Don’t know that I can get behind direct vs hub unless it somehow changed the geometry.

 

[TandKHunting]

Changing ports and baffles absolutely. Don’t know that I can get behind direct vs hub unless it somehow changed the geometry.

See my updated comment. I elaborate on how direct versus HUB can and does change performance. It's not going to be noticeable by ear, but you could make two of the exact same cans. One with direct and one with HUB. They will meter differently. Will it be huge? No. But it will be different because the physical characteristics of the can are different. That's why testing platforms like PEW want you to send the mounts you sell with the can to be tested with the can.

If you think something like that doesn't matter, don't get me started on atmospheric conditions. That matters too. Cans will test differently every day. Temp differences, humidity differences, etc. Ask Ryan about that. The smallest changes can literally give different numbers.

 

[Bluefish]

See my updated comment. I elaborate on how direct versus HUB can and does change performance. It's not going to be noticeable by ear, but you could make two of the exact same cans. One with direct and one with HUB. They will meter differently. Will it be huge? No. But it will be different because the physical characteristics of the can are different. That's why testing platforms like PEW want you to send the mounts you sell with the can to be tested with the can.

I have a hard time believing that it’s measurable. Just from looking at data the shot to shot variation is pretty big. I think the differences are more due to small sample sizes than measurable differences. I have yet to see data from a 30 shot sample with cooling between each shot.

 

[Shortschaf]

I won't be testing the OGs against anything. I helped in the design of them and it's a
Conflict of interest IMO

With respect to your honest statement here, excluding them from testing intentionally is an act of conflict of interest, not the reverse IMHO

Transparency is king

Having said that, I do appreciate all suppressor testing/comparisons that others freely offer

 

[omicron1792]

See my updated comment. I elaborate on how direct versus HUB can and does change performance. It's not going to be noticeable by ear, but you could make two of the exact same cans. One with direct and one with HUB. They will meter differently. Will it be huge? No. But it will be different because the physical characteristics of the can are different. That's why testing platforms like PEW want you to send the mounts you sell with the can to be tested with the can.

If you think something like that doesn't matter, don't get me started on atmospheric conditions. That matters too. Cans will test differently every day. Temp differences, humidity differences, etc. Ask Ryan about that. The smallest changes can literally give different numbers.

Right. Agree with you there. Why I put zero stock in what a can meters except how It compares to another can at exact same time and conditions.

 

[omicron1792]

With respect to your honest statement here, excluding them from testing intentionally from is an act of conflict of interest, not the reverse IMHO

Transparency is king

Having said that, I do appreciate all suppressor testing/comparisons that others freely offer

You’ll notice a lot of videos were made. But I haven’t seen one showing comparison to an airlock.

I’ll be told how silly I am. But why not just post a video of airlock vs OG (any or all of them) with same meters and setup

 

[Shortschaf]

You’ll notice a lot of videos were made

please forgive my ignorance, but what videos by whom?

 

[omicron1792]

please forgive my ignorance, but what videos by whom?

I was mainly talking about @Formidilosus. He was making alot of videos for a while comparing OG cans to different other cans. I remember one specifically comparing to a raptor without the reflex.

But I haven’t seen one comparing to an airlock.

 

[TandKHunting]

I have a hard time believing that it’s measurable. Just from looking at data the shot to shot variation is pretty big. I think the differences are more due to small sample sizes than measurable differences. I have yet to see data from a 30 shot sample with cooling between each shot.

If a single round within the same box of ammo can give different results...why is it hard to believe direct versus HUB can give different results? Small changes guys. SMALL changes can give different results.

Doesn't really matter to me at the end of the day. We are sending cans to PEW Science, Silencer Summit, and allowing Rokslide to test against other suppressors. The results from 3rd party verification will matter.

 

[omicron1792]

If a single round within the same box of ammo can give different results...why is it hard to believe direct versus HUB can give different results? Small changes guys. SMALL changes can give different results.

Doesn't really matter to me at the end of the day. We are sending cans to PEW Science, Silencer Summit, and allowing Rokslide to test against other suppressors. The results from 3rd party verification will matter.

Cool of you to do. Good luck. Hope y’all do well.

 

[Bluefish]

If a single round within the same box of ammo can give different results...why is it hard to believe direct versus HUB can give different results? Small changes guys. SMALL changes can give different results.

Doesn't really matter to me at the end of the day. We are sending cans to PEW Science, Silencer Summit, and allowing Rokslide to test against other suppressors. The results from 3rd party verification will matter.

I am saying it may not be measurable. Ie our meters are simply not accurate enough and/or the event of firing a projectile is too variable to get a measurement that has enough confidence that it’s actually different. If you are saying it makes a 1 db difference, I argue that the current technology is not that accurate. If you are saying 3 db, then yes it might be reliably measured with today’s tech. But from testing data I have been able to find, that’s a pretty big change like a baffle or two difference.

Small sample size bias just like people claiming nodes exist. If you simply do small sample sizes, they can exist, but when you do enough test to be statistically significant, they no longer exist. I have never seen anyone provide statically significant data on a suppressor test. I also believe it’s not relevant. As a user, I am more interested in big changes, ie 3-5db. 1-2 db changes are noise. I have also concluded that once you are around 130-133, it really doesn’t matter if it’s quieter. I can’t tell the difference on a rifle. Standing next to it, sure, but not when shooting.

 

[TandKHunting]

I am saying it may not be measurable. Ie our meters are simply not accurate enough and/or the event of firing a projectile is too variable to get a measurement that has enough confidence that it’s actually different. If you are saying it makes a 1 db difference, I argue that the current technology is not that accurate. If you are saying 3 db, then yes it might be reliably measured with today’s tech. But from testing data I have been able to find, that’s a pretty big change like a baffle or two difference.

Small sample size bias just like people claiming nodes exist. If you simply do small sample sizes, they can exist, but when you do enough test to be statistically significant, they no longer exist. I have never seen anyone provide statically significant data on a suppressor test. I also believe it’s not relevant. As a user, I am more interested in big changes, ie 3-5db. 1-2 db changes are noise. I have also concluded that once you are around 130-133, it really doesn’t matter if it’s quieter. I can’t tell the difference on a rifle. Standing next to it, sure, but not when shooting.

At the end of the day, most rifle suppressors are accomplishing hearing safe numbers.

Availability, warranty, etc. become the core factors versus a couple dB's. I agree with you there.

 

[Escalante11]

@Ryan Avery I’m not sure I track here… It’s not a conflict to test Reapers but it is a conflict to test the OG? It’s off putting that you won’t test the OG6-S or OG6.5 against the these other cans. Would appreciate it if you reconsidered.

 

[Tullis94]

@Ryan Avery I’m not sure I track here… It’s not a conflict to test Reapers but it is a conflict to test the OG? It’s off putting that you won’t test the OG6-S or OG6.5 against the these other cans. Would appreciate it if you reconsidered.

Ryan helped develop and test the OG suppressors because that is what he wants. From listening to podcasts the only involvement he had in the Reaper was suggesting to Cliff at US to make a Scythe that doesn't blow apart. The OG suppressors are his baby not the Reaper. He has repeatedly said on podcasts that he will choose the OG suppressors over the Reaper. It is also my understanding that he has no financial stake in US.

I get where you are coming from, but at the end of the day Ryan is doing this test the way he wants to. We can all appreciate it for what it is, or we can choose to not read it.

 

[Team4LongGun]

Dang Gents!

The more testing, evaluation and comparisons the better.

When someone offers you a free slice of pizza, do you go off about how it better be thin crust, wood fired oven, home made dough with 54% or better DNA test verified Italian bloodlined Chef?!