Stuff overheard at the range or local gun shop

[The Guide]

First and foremost, if that is what you carry, then go for it. I am not here to tell anybody what to do however I would never recommend to any body I know for the following reasons-

1/. Rimfire ammo like .22lr is notorious for ignition failure and ejection failures. You can negate that by carrying a revolver but....,.22LR is not manufactured to the same standards as defensive centerfire ammunition.

2./ .22 LR is notorious for corrosion and when you have a smaller surface area (a .22LR cartridge) you are prone to more failures via corrosion. If you carry a pistol in your pocket like a lot of .22lr carriers like to do you are adding sweat and moisture constantly to that highly corrosive cartridge. This makes it worse with a revolver with its open cylinder design.

3./ .22 LR are one of the most inconsistent ballistic cartridges made. Plenty of testing has shown this. You can take a ballistic gel dummy and shoot it plum in the sternum and the .22LR will just lodge into the surface area of the bone. Then you take the same gun, same ammo, new dummy and the .22LR will go through the sternum and go about a half inch into vitals. When it comes to cartridges it is one of the most inconsistent when it comes to fragmentation, piercing, rolling and so forth.

4./ There is ZERO conclusive reporting or evidence that indicates a .22LR in a handgun is a useful or valuable defensive carry round. No large scale testing via any legitimate military, law enforcement, security agency or any other large scale case use has ever been done with the .22 being effective in any capacity against human targets in defensive case uses. It is backed entirely by .22 case use studies that are often results from accidents or cheap saturday night special loadouts like .22 / .25 etc in gang conflicts where people are getting shot multiple times and suffering damage hours after the event.

5./ The cycling rate even on semi autos is slower than centerfire unless you are running competition standard .22s.... But you would probably not be carrying competition standard .22s

6/. Stopping power is often a misnomer in the firearm communities. "Stopping power" is often thought of as a powerful thud or taking a large chunk out of a person but it has more to do with - The psychological reaction to gunfire (loud versus quiet) and the .22LR fails at that. The ability to fragment bone and penetration through vital organs causing large wound channels and disrupting nerves, tissue, arteries etc as a .22 has very little or no "CNS disruption" power behind it. Think about what happens when a round hits bone, if even a modern 9mm hits the sternum it will split the sternum and that bone split causes larger arterial and tissue bleeding and damage. A .22 is going to hit, impact and either penetrate or lodge itself into the bone. A centerfire defensive hollowpoint bullet is going to mushroom and fragment and cause a much larger surface area of potential bone breaks, tissue damage and a wound channel that flares out causing more bleeding and damage. A .22LR causes little CNS disruption unless you are "lucky" and the .22 manages to deflect and hit off of several internal bone structures and goes through nerves.

7/ .22LR ammunition is not manufactured even the nicer more expensive rounds to the same manufacturing standards as defensive American made centerfire ammunition.

8. / Manufacturers do not recommend .22 for defensive use. My dad has worked in the firearm industry his entire career from manufacturing to retail and he has never heard of a company suggesting .22 as a reliable and effective defensive carry round. .22 handguns just do not produce the velocity and power that even .22 rifles do.



If a .22 is what you have then use it. If you have some medical issue or preference for it then use it, however, its not nearly as effective and has more shortcomings than say any modern .380 or 9mm especially in the last 8 years where manufacturers have been making the various lighter recoil controlling "EZ" systems and what not to make it easier to carry defensive centerfire calibers.

So since it is so bad and no manufacturers recommend 22LR for defense use, why did Federal come out with the "Punch" and the CCI come out with the "Uppercut"? Both of these are dedicated self defense rounds. Why does Ruger, Smith and Wesson, and many other manufacturers make 22LR and 22Mag revolvers and pistols in their self defense lines?

In point #6 you state the sound scares bad guys away? That is the most Joe Biden shit I've ever heard. "Just need a double barrel shot gun! I tell Jill to just shoot it in the air and it will scare them away..." Come on, man.

You preach some pretty good fudd lore!

Jay

 

[tradman]

I wouldn't want to be shot with a 22.

 

[KenLee]

I sincerely feel for anyone that has to shoot at a public range.

Amen Brother!
I live 4 miles from the nicest public range (that I'm aware of) in South Carolina. Haven't been there in at least 5 years.
I shoot off the old well house on my Grandparents old place. Bought my aunt out years ago. Have been offered more by developers in the last 2 years than the place is worth, and will probably be worth in my lifetime. You should see their faces when I say "Naah, that's where I shoot".

 

[KenLee]

I wouldn't want to be shot with a 22.

I've killed dozens of 1000 plus pound cows/steers/horses with a 22lr. Hundreds of 300 plus pound hogs. Couple dozen whitetail. Thousands of racoons at 20-150 ft up a tree.
I dang sure don't want a "Stanger" coming at me.

 

[2Stamp]

I sincerely feel for anyone that has to shoot at a public range.

I try to go first thing in the morning to avoid all the other shooters. Especially the "older gentlemen" that have nothing better to do than go to the range, hang out half a day, talk nonsense, and ask everyone "what 'cha shootin there?" I have limited time when I go. If I drive out there and there is a vehicle or two, I usually turn around and come back another time.

 

[Choupique]

Federal come out with the "Punch" and the CCI come out with the "Uppercut"? Both of these are dedicated self defense rounds.

I'm looking for some to try. I'm hoping some tighter QC might yield some tighter groups.

 

[The Guide]

I'm looking for some to try. I'm hoping some tighter QC might yield some tighter groups.

Uppercut

CCI Uppercut 22 LR Ammo 32 Gr JHP - Ammo Deals

CCI Uppercut 22 Long Rifle Ammo 32 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point at Target Sports USA with free shipping available. Enjoy deals on 22 Long Rifle ammo fo

www.targetsportsusa.com

Punch

Federal Premium Personal Defense Punch 22LR Ammo 29 Grain Plated Flat

Self-defense isn't one size fits all. Punch 22 LR from Federal Premium uses a first-of-its-kind nickel-plated lead-core bullet pushed at maximum...

www.midwayusa.com

Jay

 

[GoneFullTrad]

You spend a lot of time at gun stores, it seems...

My dad owned one for about 20 years and worked in the industry his entire career so yeah, I have.

 

[GoneFullTrad]

So since it is so bad and no manufacturers recommend 22LR for defense use, why did Federal come out with the "Punch" and the CCI come out with the "Uppercut"? Both of these are dedicated self defense rounds. Why does Ruger, Smith and Wesson, and many other manufacturers make 22LR and 22Mag revolvers and pistols in their self defense lines?

In point #6 you state the sound scares bad guys away? That is the most Joe Biden shit I've ever heard. "Just need a double barrel shot gun! I tell Jill to just shoot it in the air and it will scare them away..." Come on, man.

You preach some pretty good fudd lore!

Jay

Why do they make .22 LR and .22 Mags self defense handguns -

For handicap, arthritic people who have no other choice ? It still does not make it a good choice. It is better than nothing but if you have the ability to shoot a larger caliber that is silly.

Have you tested that ammo ?

I have not tested the Federal self defense but I have shot the CCI and it performed no better than any other CCI .22 ammo with the occasional failure to feeds and dud rounds.

Lol I did not say it scares bad guys away, I said there is a psychological component to being shot at... How can you deny that? You really do not think someone is going to react differently between getting shot at a supressed weapon or a .22 or an air gun versus say a 9mm? The military even considers that a component to weapon selections with supressed or non supressed weapon systems lol....


There is nothing I can say to sway you, so at this point especially when you start name dropping retarded politicians.

 

[9.3koolaid]

Why do they make .22 LR and .22 Mags self defense handguns -

For handicap, arthritic people who have no other choice ? It still does not make it a good choice. It is better than nothing but if you have the ability to shoot a larger caliber that is silly.

Have you tested that ammo ?

I have not tested the Federal self defense but I have shot the CCI and it performed no better than any other CCI .22 ammo with the occasional failure to feeds and dud rounds.

Lol I did not say it scares bad guys away, I said there is a psychological component to being shot at... How can you deny that? You really do not think someone is going to react differently between getting shot at a supressed weapon or a .22 or an air gun versus say a 9mm? The military even considers that a component to weapon selections with supressed or non supressed weapon systems lol....


There is nothing I can say to sway you, so at this point especially when you start name dropping retarded politicians.

 

[Amos Keeto]

I wouldn't want to be shot with a 22.

Gary H. (6'6" - 300#) mouthed off to a guy in a parking lot. Guy pulls a .22 on him.
Gary mouthsoff again, "You can't hurt me with that thing!" Then turned to walk away. Guy shot him in the back.
Gary never mouthed off again about not being hurt by a .22!

I've killed 1200 pound horses with a .22LR. One shot. Bullet placement is paramount!

 

[doc holiday13]

I've killed dozens of 1000 plus pound cows/steers/horses with a 22lr. Hundreds of 300 plus pound hogs. Couple dozen whitetail. Thousands of racoons at 20-150 ft up a tree.
I dang sure don't want a "Stanger" coming at me.

Quoted to emphasize this

I haven't done all those things but I know 22lr will do them

I have been given 2nd hand knowledge a single 22lr to the chest will put you in the ER. I met that guy once

 

[*zap*]

sheriff deputy "instructor" talking to woman behind the counter at the range/gun store. They sheriff dept was there training....
"If I have to draw my weapon on duty my finger is on the trigger because I may have to shoot"

 

[jahaze]

Never sight in your rifle when it's over 54 degrees, it will ruin your barrel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[grfox92]

My dad owned one for about 20 years and worked in the industry his entire career so yeah, I have.

I think you missed the joke.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[NWPA-Whitetail]

Some of these posts made me laugh out loud to myself.

 

[fishslap]

Man this thread is great.

Had a real doozy of a day this past week at the range with a couple groups that I swear were just pulling my leg.

First 2 guys roll up and ask what I'm shooting because it sounds like a 300 of some sort...it was a 5.56 with no muzzle device of any kind lol. We have a range that allows you to drive to set targets, but they insist on walking all the way out to the 200 yard berm and set their stuff...it takes forever. After 10 shots from their 300 WMs they ask if they can go check, so I offer my spotting scope to save their legs (and my time). Guy 1 says he felt he was hitting low and left. Sure enough, first 2 shots are 3" low and 3" left, 3rd shot is another 4" low. He goes, "yup, so just a flyer, should be good to go"....I don't even know how to respond in those situations since guys tend to stonewall you if you correct them but dang it makes my head hurt hearing stuff like that.

Next up a couple of strange lookin fellas waltz in with a braked 300 and stand there awkwardly for a couple minutes while the other 2 guys are grabbing their targets. I tell them if they need to go set targets, do it now since the line is on cease fire. They look at me like they don't even understand English...blank stares. I repeat myself in a different way "do you guys need to set targets to shoot?" Leader of the dynamic duo responds "we don't have any targets we're just going to shoot, it's my friends first time shooting a gun".

I packed up and dipped, have zero interest in being around a potential range safety issue. You really do see/hear it all at the range lol.

Sounds like the range I go to in eastern Colorado. I told management that they should not even let people on the rifle ranges if they don’t have the optics or targets to see shots from the bench. I’ve had guys who want to call it cold after every shot. I’ve also had guys who want to walk out in front of their bench to pick up old brass while the range is hot.

 

[2ski]

So since it is so bad and no manufacturers recommend 22LR for defense use, why did Federal come out with the "Punch" and the CCI come out with the "Uppercut"? Both of these are dedicated self defense rounds. Why does Ruger, Smith and Wesson, and many other manufacturers make 22LR and 22Mag revolvers and pistols in their self defense lines?

In point #6 you state the sound scares bad guys away? That is the most Joe Biden shit I've ever heard. "Just need a double barrel shot gun! I tell Jill to just shoot it in the air and it will scare them away..." Come on, man.

You preach some pretty good fudd lore!

Jay

What an incredibly rude comment to someone who was explaining his reasoning for why he has the opinion he does. If only we had more people like him with well thought out concise explanations.

 

[ericacymcdonald]

Some of these posts reminded me of one I'm sure a few of you have also heard

"22lr bounces around inside causing more damage"

I don't care what you carry, just thought it fit in the stuff overhead at the gun shop discussion

 

[elkliver]

If you feel comfortable carrying a 22, then by all means carry it. It will protect you better than the 44 magnum you left at home. and if that's what someone wants to carry, why would someone else feel like it is their duty to belittle the choice? To each their own. Same answer for open carry. If the person is carrying in a safe manner and not being an A$$4ole, then they can carry however they want.