Struggling to see the point of 6.5's

[35WhelenAI]

Yes: readily available factory rifles and ammo.

My point was the cartridge itself is nothing revolutionary. Put a fast twist barrel on any of the other 6.5s and you do the same thing. Unfortunately it is a hand loading proposition at that point.

Whoever decided to put the fast twist barrel on a 6.5 in general needs a credit, not some revolutionary design.

Reality is they couldn't just slap a faster twist barrel on any of the other 6.5, IMO. Folks with the slower twist bbl would shoot the ammo that needed a faster twist and it would be a PR mess.

So good on the marketing machine.

 

[HandgunHTR]

My point was the cartridge itself is nothing revolutionary. Put a fast twist barrel on any of the other 6.5s and you do the same thing. Unfortunately it is a hand loading proposition at that point.

Whoever decided to put the fast twist barrel on a 6.5 in general needs a credit, not some revolutionary design.

Reality is they couldn't just slap a faster twist barrel on any of the other 6.5, IMO. Folks with the slower twist bbl would shoot the ammo that needed a faster twist and it would be a PR mess.

So good on the marketing machine.

The Swedes had the fast twist thing figured out 100 years ago. It was just too bad that Remington was too stupid to follow suite when they launched the 260 rem.
As far as the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 PRC, the design of the case was also something that had been around for a while as the Bench Rest family of cartridges have utilized a similar concept for 40+ years.
Yes, good on those who finally put it all together in one package, but it is more than just marketing that is fueling the popularity of these cartridges. If they didn't perform, they would die. But, they do, because the concepts that they were built on have already been proven.

 

[woods89]

It's simply a very well designed cartridge. At the time it came out, it was unique in allowing 140+/- gr bullets to be loaded to standard short action mag lengths, with a proper twist rate. It's also a very shootable level of recoil. These days there are 22, 24, and 25 cal bullets that make it less unique, but Hornady did a great job with the design and marketing.

 

[WyoKid]

I thought about getting a 6.5 prc, but I already own a 270 Win. The prc wasn’t gonna give me anything that the 270 wouldn’t for the ranges I hunt.

One word for 6.5s popularity - marketing.

I am with you. Love the 270 Win (or short for those that want a short action). 3000+ fps with 130 gr. Have been shooting gun since 16 YOA for all big game in lower 48 without a problem.

 

[Newtosavage]

270 is one of my all time favorite cartridges, but a 143 grain ELD-X going 3050 FPS at the muzzle has a lot of “oomph” at impact.

What are you using to send a 143 ELD-X at 3050 fps?

 

[Bomberodevil]

What are you using to send a 143 ELD-X at 3050 fps?

Nosler 26 book velocity is over 3300 fps, 6.5 PRC is over 3060 fps, per Nosler load data. https://www.nosler.com/6-5-prc, https://www.nosler.com/26-nosler

 

[Newtosavage]

Meanwhile my .308 is sending 150's at 2960.

Nosler 26 book velocity is over 3300 fps, 6.5 PRC is over 3060 fps, per Nosler load data. https://www.nosler.com/6-5-prc, https://www.nosler.com/26-nosler

Having to throw 56 grains of powder to get 3060 out of a 143 grain bullet doesn't impress me that much. I guess that's my point.

 

[Bomberodevil]

Meanwhile my .308 is sending 150's at 2960.

Having to throw 56 grains of powder to get 3060 out of a 143 grain bullet doesn't impress me that much. I guess that's my point.

Sorry, I thought your question was what is used to send a 6.5 143 ELDX in excess of 3050 fps, so that’s what I furnished for you. Now you’re saying it’s too much powder. Got it, I won’t try to help you any more. Have a nice night.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I love a good blondes vs brunettes, coke vs Pepsi debate. I just want to say that before we got to 20 pages.

PS - brunettes and Pepsi, everyday and twice on Sunday, unless there is bourbon involved, in which case blondes and coke will do just fine as well.

 

[Newtosavage]

Sorry, I thought your question what was used to send a 6.5 143 ELDX in excess of 3050 fps, so that’s what I furnished for you. Now you’re saying it’s too much powder. Got it, I won’t try to help you any more. Have a nice night.

Was never about you. I asked and you answered. Thanks. What followed had nothing to do with you.

 

[CCooper]

Amen to coke, blondes, and bourbon.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

One word for 6.5s popularity - marketing.

I am with you. Love the 270 Win (or short for those that want a short action). 3000+ fps with 130 gr. Have been shooting gun since 16 YOA for all big game in lower 48 without a problem.

270 is what I ran most of my time also, and remains my fav 20th century cartridge. You’re wrong about marketing. The 6.5 Creedmoor has about the same 2000 fps impact velocity distance as the .270 (I only run factory ammo compares), which with modern premium load in both about 600 yards..but the 270 is a long action and burns another 10+ grains of powder to do it...recoil jumps past the threshold for lots of shooters, the high bc bullets from 6.5 from there just keep walking away from the 270, oh and 6.5 runs higher sd so more penetration given same impacts and construction

Those still hung up on marketing are wrong. The thing basically advertises itself. I haven’t seen any Creedmoor marketing anywhere come to think of it.

 

[Unckebob]

Amen to coke, blondes, and bourbon.

You left off raw Tomahawk Steaks cooked rare

Personally, I love Sushi, Latina women, Coke Zero & my 6.5CM deer rifle.

 

[sbaker0029]

I love a good blondes vs brunettes, coke vs Pepsi debate. I just want to say that before we got to 20 pages.

PS - brunettes and Pepsi, everyday and twice on Sunday, unless there is bourbon involved, in which case blondes and coke will do just fine as well.

Burnettes, bourbon, Battlestar Galactica
Or blondes, beer, Baywatch
Just throwing it out there

 

[35WhelenAI]

Yeah but none of those have a gun and hunting... Coffee in the dark, tin cup of oatmeal, crunching frozen ground underfoot, any gun... Just throwing it out there...

 

[3325]

One word for 6.5s popularity - marketing.

I am with you. Love the 270 Win (or short for those that want a short action). 3000+ fps with 130 gr. Have been shooting gun since 16 YOA for all big game in lower 48 without a problem.

Agreed. The .270 Win is my favorite. But to some folks it just isn't "interesting" the same way it was in 1925. The fact that it still kills with boring regularity and effectiveness the same way it did in 1925 doesn't seem to make up for it's commonness and dullness - it's grandpa's cartridge for goodness sakes.

Besides, some men lied to their wives about their "need" to get a new whatever rifle in whatever caliber so now they have to sing it's praises to justify the lie.

 

[3325]

BC and SD. What would we discuss if it weren't for BC and SD? Along with velocity, BC and SD numbers get played like a trump card in ballistics discussions. I suspect it's mostly a preoccupation with inconsequential increments.

Because don't ballistic charts often times become just a wish list as soon as a shooter stands up? I mean, get off the bench and away from measured distances and chronographs and gel penetration tests and is there one shooter in a thousand that can make incremental "improvements" in BC and SD really mean something useful in most field situations? Maybe there is and I just haven't met him yet and had to come to this forum to find him.

I'm not saying ballistic improvements are not real and that they never mean anything - I'm shooting a .270 instead of a .30-30, so obviously I must think the ballistic difference between those two is important in most situations at least most of the time. But is the difference in practical field performance between, say, a 6.5 CM and a .270 as great as the difference in practical field performance difference between a .30-30 and a .270? Perhaps it is and I'm just washed up, but the touted improvements of recent years seem to amount to a lot of tinkering on the margins to me.

 

[ETtikka]

Efficiency was the design objective for the 6.5cm,

that’s the summary

 

[WyoKid]

270 is what I ran most of my time also, and remains my fav 20th century cartridge. You’re wrong about marketing. The 6.5 Creedmoor has about the same 2000 fps impact velocity distance as the .270 (I only run factory ammo compares), which with modern premium load in both about 600 yards..but the 270 is a long action and burns another 10+ grains of powder to do it...recoil jumps past the threshold for lots of shooters, the high bc bullets from 6.5 from there just keep walking away from the 270, oh and 6.5 runs higher sd so more penetration given same impacts and construction

Those still hung up on marketing are wrong. The thing basically advertises itself. I haven’t seen any Creedmoor marketing anywhere come to think of it.

6.5 might be more efficient given a short case and less powder, but the .270 is not a hard kicking rifle. I am not convinced that the incremental benefits of the 6.5 over the .270 is enough for me go buy a new rifle and reloading dies. I am also not convinced any big game animal in the lower 48 will be able to tell difference. This is probably the best article I have seen comparing the two cartridges:

https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/6-5-creedmoor-versus-270-winchester

 

[Pony Soldier]

Sorry but in my world velocity equals bloodshot and loss of meat. In all these comments I don't think there was more than one comment on that. All I saw was a pleading for more velocity. Without consideration of bullet performance and meat recover this is a discussion focussed for shooters not hunters. Now - continue the insanity.