Strange Observation in Idaho

[IdahoElk]

Management cost money. You want real stability? I am not sure you’d like the cost of it . However is that’s your objective then a better solution is that you fund entire management budget through resident fees for tags and licenses. nonresident revenue can then be treated as a windfall.

I think residence would scream bloody murder if that came to fruition.

Where did I say anything about not allowing non residents to hunt?

 

[Trial153]

Where did I say anything about not allowing non residents to hunt?

Are you having a comprehension issue? I said to treat nonresident fees as budgetary windfall. How can you have garner a windfall of fees if you didn’t sell them any ( non resident) tags?

 

[Trial153]

My proposal was simply an increased tax for residents of states that already have Elk/Mule deer hunting. I originally proposed something in the $500 to $1000 range. Yet I think, as you mentioned, a matrix could be devised based on the feasibility of drawing in a given state. I would say for a state like AZ where getting a tag is neigh impossible then it should be at the higher end. States like MT or CO which does have good out of state it would be way less say $200. As NM is a full on draw with no points I could see them not paying anything extra as my odds are as good as any one elses. For states like CA/WA/OR/UT who do a horrible job they should pay $500+.

I totally understand where your coming from. However I also think is overly simplistic to think that each state could even if they wanted to offer an equal or proportional opportunity.

I struggle with the same concept in my home state. New York has an unlimited allocation of nonresident deer licenses. Any nonresident can effectively purchase the same privileges as a resident, Regardless of the added pressure or implications it has on States deer herd and the Quality of the Hunting. In effect management becomes more of a reaction to what took place in the previous seasons rather than getting achieving an objective for the future.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

My proposal was simply an increased tax for residents of states that already have Elk/Mule deer hunting. I originally proposed something in the $500 to $1000 range. Yet I think, as you mentioned, a matrix could be devised based on the feasibility of drawing in a given state. I would say for a state like AZ where getting a tag is neigh impossible then it should be at the higher end. States like MT or CO which does have good out of state it would be way less say $200. As NM is a full on draw with no points I could see them not paying anything extra as my odds are as good as any one elses. For states like CA/WA/OR/UT who do a horrible job they should pay $500+.

So because AZ has limited resources and only has so much carrying capacity for elk, and even AZ hunters struggle to get tags, they should pay more to go out of state? I'm not even sure how to respond to that logic. AZ does a good job of managing their elk contrary to your opinion, they just have limited habitat.

Honestly I think a simple answer if OTC states get overloaded is to get rid of OTC for non residents in that state and make non residents get "general tags" like WY and MT do it. Singling out residents of certain states is outlandish at best, especially with the logic presented here. It's not like I decide how my state manages their tag allotment. Don't punish me just because this is where my job is located.

 

[paleraider]

So because AZ has limited resources and only has so much carrying capacity for elk, and even AZ hunters struggle to get tags, they should pay more to go out of state? I'm not even sure how to respond to that logic. AZ does a good job of managing their elk contrary to your opinion, they just have limited habitat.

Honestly I think a simple answer if OTC states get overloaded is to get rid of OTC for non residents in that state and make non residents get "general tags" like WY and MT do it. Singling out residents of certain states is outlandish at best, especially with the logic presented here. It's not like I decide how my state manages their tag allotment. Don't punish me just because this is where my job is located.

Why not punish you? Currently I and my fellow residents are being punished by our neighbors management policies and their unintended consequences that we also don't control.

Not all things have to cost the same to all people. People pay more or less in state taxes, income taxes, sales tax, inheritance tax, and property tax based upon where they live. There is no reason everyone gets to pay the same out of state price. As is happening all around us the concept of surge pricing is taking root. You pay more for items on Amazon and Walmart based on demand AND location. You pay more for and movie tickets based on location and time of day and demand.

I personally see this variable tag pricing as an inevitability. It would not fly for residents so the next best thing is non residents which as a resident feels like a win-win if we get the same revenue for fewer non res hunters.

 

[colonel00]

Heh, almost thought I was reading a thread on the Alaska Outdoor forums...

 

[blackpowderhunter]

So I have a question for you. Under your brilliant new plan. The out of state fees sky rocket. The following year 80% less people come from the terrible states of wa, ca, and Utah to "fill their tags". You're super excited that now you have the woods to yourself. Now the Id fish and game goes into a budget crisis and changes resident fees. No longer are you allowed the sportsman package and now your resident license and elk tag alone costs over 600 dollars (what I paid this year). Now are you stoked to have all those people out of the woods?
I could care less how many people come from Idaho. Montana or Utah to fish for salmon or halibut in Washington. Revenue is revenue and helps the department.
Just saying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Odell]

Yes it was over run with people who are from out of state. I am really torn on this one to be honest. They are hunting Idaho because the regs and opportunities in their own states are bad. So they are coming here and making it less enjoyable for the residents who fund the state treasury.

This will come off as very ranty but so be it. Personally I think Idaho should charge an additional tax on Elk/Mule deer tags to all out of state residents who who's home states have elk/mule deer. This wouldn't impact the majority of folks out east but would hopefully slow down the CA/WA/OR crowd. Ideally I would make this tag hurt quite a bit, like $500-$1000. This would hopefully call attention the the poor management of the home states. It isn't like as an ID resident I am going to have a great opportunity to hunt OR/WA/CA.

Sure. While we are at it, lets charge people the people of idaho the full bill to manage all that public land since the rest of us are subsidizing your use of it.

 

[1signguy]

Headed to Idaho in two weeks for mule deer and elk. How would your proposal affect landowner tags? Would landowners still be free to give them away or do with them what they want?
What happens when other states follow your lead and raise their prices for out of state hunters? God knows people would pay a lot of $$$ to hunt AZ elk every year! That would take us right back to where we are now... except for maybe placing hunting out of the reach of some because of cost.
Do you then charge more for all the C.A. transplants in your state who want to hunt elk and mule deer but keep prices the same for those born in the state?
Your proposal is ridiculous. Just hunt harder, deeper and smarter than all the out of state folks donating tag costs to your state. You are blessed to live in a state rich in wildlife where so many others want to hunt.

 

[paleraider]

Your proposal is ridiculous. Just hunt harder, deeper and smarter than all the out of state folks donating tag costs to your state. You are blessed to live in a state rich in wildlife where so many others want to hunt.

My proposal has nothing to do with my success. What you fail to realize is your state was once rich in wild life too, as were all of the western states. If you are coming from out of state to hunt ID elk or mule deer a few hundred dollars more isn't going to stop you. There are only two states with OTC tags so if you don't get drawn in your home state you are going to one of those end of story.

I also do not follow your transplant vs born in idaho logic. Resident vs non-resident is my take, I don't care where you were born. As for land owner tags I believe the person still needs a hunting license they could charge said fee there.

 

[paleraider]

Sure. While we are at it, lets charge people the people of idaho the full bill to manage all that public land since the rest of us are subsidizing your use of it.

I am sorry but I don't follow here. Everyone keeps saying I want them out of every where. That isn't true. I simply want them to pay more in hopes that it brings attention to the asymmetric policies of our neighboring states. Public land is public for everyone. Yet wildlife management is by state. By all means use our public lands but don't expect us to be happy when your states policies drive you from your home state and into ours for hunting. There seems to be an exceptional amount of hunters CA/WA/OR as per the original post. It isn't cheap or easy for me as an ID resident to hunt in those states so why should I worry about it being easy for them to hunt in mine?? If they are so willing to be harassed by their own state why shouldn't mine follow suite? I don't foresee the unending apocalypse that many on here predict. Elk is a finite resource we have them, you want them....

 

[blackpowderhunter]

With basic math...and ONLY accounting for licenses and tags..non resident elk hunters bring in roughly $6 million dollars. 415 dollars for an elk tag and 154 dollars for a hunting license x roughly 10K available non resident A/B tags.
that's not even taking into account the guys who buy wolf tags, cougar tags, bear tags, or deer tags.
Resident license + elk tag costs what...45 bucks?
so. I pay over 10x as much as you for the same experience, and you're saying that I should be charged more than that? dude..
Sorry I'm getting a little chippy, it's just look at what the disparity in cost already is.

 

[paleraider]

With basic math...and ONLY accounting for licenses and tags..non resident elk hunters bring in roughly $6 million dollars. 415 dollars for an elk tag and 154 dollars for a hunting license x roughly 10K available non resident A/B tags.
that's not even taking into account the guys who buy wolf tags, cougar tags, bear tags, or deer tags.
Resident license + elk tag costs what...45 bucks?
so. I pay over 10x as much as you for the same experience, and you're saying that I should be charged more than that? dude..
Sorry I'm getting a little chippy, it's just look at what the disparity in cost already is.

Your totally right yur $700-800 contribution is above and beyond what residents pay in property tax, sales tax, income tax....give me a break...

Also bear in mind there are many left over Non Resident tags that locals can purchase for the Non Res price, I and many others do this annually. So your 10k number is a bit high.

 

[colonel00]

How much of your property tax, sales tax, income tax...give me a break (is that Kit-kat tax?) goes to fish and wildlife though?

 

[blackpowderhunter]

I am sorry but I don't follow here. Everyone keeps saying I want them out of every where. That isn't true. I simply want them to pay more in hopes that it brings attention to the asymmetric policies of our neighboring states. Public land is public for everyone. Yet wildlife management is by state. By all means use our public lands but don't expect us to be happy when your states policies drive you from your home state and into ours for hunting. There seems to be an exceptional amount of hunters CA/WA/OR as per the original post. It isn't cheap or easy for me as an ID resident to hunt in those states so why should I worry about it being easy for them to hunt in mine?? If they are so willing to be harassed by their own state why shouldn't mine follow suite? I don't foresee the unending apocalypse that many on here predict. Elk is a finite resource we have them, you want them....

come buy an OTC tag in western washington, hunt 3 pt or better bulls. our rosoevelt elk are bigger than your rocky mt elk....so you should pay more to get a bigger elk right?
I went and hunted an any bull, otc, pan handle unit. i wasn't coming down to hunt for a trophy bull.
I was going out to hunt with some friends, get away from work for a week, and have a good time. I apologize that my good time infringed on your good time because of my license plates.
Theoretically it is just as easy for you to come hunt washington.
Go online, create a profile, and put in your credit card info. Simple as that.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

What you fail to realize is your state was once rich in wild life too, as were all of the western states.

What you fail to realize is damn near every state was rich in elk. Have you ever read the history of elk and their historic range? By your proposal let's punish people from states that have done a great job of bringing elk back like AZ but not punish states from back east who haven't brought elk back. You also would punish AZ residents like crazy but not NM residents even though AZ gives a higher percentage of tags to nonresidents like you. Your proposal completely lacks an understanding of the facts, pale. Perhaps it could start a conversation about a new way to go about things, but you haven't thought it through even a little bit.

 

[Dromsky]

I guess California could charge Idaho residents exorbitant rates to visit our beachs because Idaho doesn't have many, or Dodger stadium, Disneyland, Legoland, Seaworld, Hearst Castle, I could go all night here. To camp at our local county campgrounds, I pay the same as an international tourist.

 

[blackpowderhunter]

Your totally right yur $700-800 contribution is above and beyond what residents pay in property tax, sales tax, income tax....give me a break...

Also bear in mind there are many left over Non Resident tags that locals can purchase for the Non Res price, I and many others do this annually. So your 10k number is a bit high.

I went off of the fact that of the 10,415 quota for non res...there are currently 76 available.
sorry, i didnt realize that Idaho uses 100% of it's property tax, income tax, and sales tax to fund the department of fish and wildlife, so you're right. my assessment isn't fair, but your sarcastic gesture doesn't quite fit the bill here.
you're paying for your schools, roads, etc with that money. so you're right, i don't think I should be footing the bill for your kid to go to school with my non resident hunting license.

 

[KurtR]

You mean how good we "HAD" it,I've never seen so many out of state hunters as I have the last three years.I just pack in deeper but friends that can't are beside themselves.
Where do you hunt deer in NY? Can I bring a bunch of friends and hunt the Whitetail rut with you? we don't have Whitetails hear,you don't know how good you have it. Ha!

You can here. Lots of public land season starts in a week. Pm if you are serious. Bucks are chasing think there are some left over tags still. Fair warning if you think Idaho is crowded hunting wait till you come here. The last two years we run into hardly any one compared to here. Maybe that's why we have not killed an elk haha gotta find the spots with more people.

 

[Tim in Wa.]

For starters non resident s pay typically 10 times what residents pay and usually hunt National Forest s that we all own.