Stock Ergonomics... Buttpad height.

[wind gypsy]

Yes- because their guns weigh 30lbs, have zero movement in recoil. They primary shoot from tripods and barricades and do zero dynamic shooting. It isn’t general hunting, and is a mistake not to understand where PRS is hurting techniques for people not comporting in PRS with PRS gear.

If scoring of PRS was changed to “time plus”- that is total time it took you to hit all targets: so whoever hits all targets the fastest, wins; the bolt rifles would start to look suspiciously similar to what we talk about.

I’m curious what you mean by dynamic shooting? Because there can be lots of movement and differing rests on a stage.

Also, what about the typical prs setup makes it slow? They are commonly called race guns.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I was curious about this and totally ignorant of it, so I did a quick google search. It seems that more serious shooters are in the 20-25 pound range with 24-28” barrels. And the low end mentioned was 12-16 pounds. My heaviest deer hunting rifle is 10.8 pounds with a 28” barrel (counting suppressor). The heaviest rifle I’ve carried was a 14.8 pound .22-250 I used while walking around the farm looking for groundhogs. My lightest deer rifle is about 8.8 pounds. Based on the posts in threads about hunting rifle weight on RokSlide, my rifles are at the heavy end of what most hunters carry.

Here’s a short clip about it I thought seemed to show what it typically looks like.

The timing aspect of the course suggests that you do have to move and establish positions relatively quickly. Having 90-120 seconds to take 8-12 shots seems typical. That’s on a known course from one stable, established position with a bag to another.

Comparing any of that to hunting rifles or hunting situations seems a bit absurd. I’d estimate my typical time to take a shot where I hunt is well under five seconds. The buck who gave my friend’s son time to set up on my backpack and rear bag and then at least 30 seconds to decide he had a clear 220-yard shot (the buck was partially obscured by some branches and we were hoping the buck would step into the clear) was a serious aberration.

And that’s not to suggest that PRS doesn’t take skill. It clearly takes skill, but, in my opinion, it is a game that doesn’t in any way replicate field shooting on live animals or combat. It has much in common with other competitive martial arts in that regard. Or sports in general for that matter.

 

[wind gypsy]

The timing aspect of the course suggests that you do have to move and establish positions relatively quickly. Having 90-120 seconds to take 8-12 shots seems typical. That’s on a known course from one stable, established position with a bag to another.

The positions are definitely not what I’d always consider stable. Example from a match in the picture. I’m pretty sure you had to shoot from 5 different positions on this rickety old office chair. While dudes who are fast can game it with rear tripod like in the picture, doing so would make most people time out.

Different from hunting for sure but trying to get 10 rounds off accurately from 5 different positions off a wobbly prop seems “dynamic” to me.

 

[DangerRanger]

I’ve timed out on PRS stages, especially when new. I could have not, but I’m not going to shoot a rifle when uncomfortable or unsteady for a game that doesn’t matter. These are on weird stages where the targets are way apart on different hills and the barricades o be used are way apart.

I also shoot a relatively light rifle(18 wet) and suppressed and a 6.5 so for PRS a pretty ungamer rig.

I feel like “PRS” is such a vague and variable thing especially with regional matches. The Coleman’s creek match will have the boring ass timed skills stage where you’re just piping a 400 yard target and then it will have a stage where you have to jump between boulders building positions and finding marked up targets at 850 yards. Very different skill set

I suck at shooting tho

 

[BLJ]

it is a game that doesn’t in any way replicate field shooting on live animals

I feel that PRS 22 matches over the past 5 years have helped me tremendously with field positions on game.

I look at the matches as training for hunting. Not really the game aspect.

In both knees with a bag over a sawhorse feels the same to me as a stump or branch.

And I’ll say that the pictures I’ve seen of your farm, that place is made for PRS style 22.

ETA
@wind gypsy was posting as I was.
Similar perspective for me.

 

[acochran]

I’m curious what you mean by dynamic shooting? Because there can be lots of movement and differing rests on a stage.

Also, what about the typical prs setup makes it slow? They are commonly called race guns.

Wondering the same thing. More upright head position and the way the rifles are setup allow for a more efficient (less movement, ie quicker) way of shooting than teaching to load your head/neck forward onto the rifle (pressures vary under stress, muscle tension create wobble, etc, etc).

To get back to the original post, it’s not just a matter of higher buttpad relative to bore. How the rifle is addressed, where the buttpad is placed on the clavicle (height and width), ring height, interface of cheek with the comb all have a part to play. I run my adjustable butt pad about 1/2” higher because it gets the butt pad a bit higher on my chest and I find I can support “under” it better that way which results in less muzzle rise and more straight recoil. I’m not running the pad so high that it’s no longer contacting my body. I’m moving that interface up to where it’s just at the top of my collar bone. I typically run higher rings than most (1.2-1.5”) recommend, with a light jaw weld, and more upright head position.

 

[Dobermann]

I’m curious what you mean by dynamic shooting? Because there can be lots of movement and differing rests on a stage.

Also, what about the typical prs setup makes it slow? They are commonly called race guns.

I'm not @Formidilosus, but I think it's interesting to compare some of the original precision competitions of, say 15 years ago (Rifles Only Brawl, Snipers Hide Cup, and others), with the PRS matches of today ... much more dynamic, with lots more movement: running across fields, walking over balance beams (with all of your gear), crawling through culverts, climbing towers, and much more.

Not surprising that the guns were far lighter. Same for more 'field rifle' type shooting, such as those hosted by Competition Dynamics - or most of the matches in NZ.

Back when Jacob was looking at organising the RO Assassin's Way (before it got axed by Covid), Chris Way said on the ES podcast that his (scoped) rifle for the Sniper Adventure Challenge was 17lb, but that he wanted to get it down to 16lbs, "but 12 or 13 would be good".

Fast forward to 2023, and he was talking about 10-12 lb ... in other words, half the 20-25 lb that the guy in the MDT video that @Q_Sertorius posted above.

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm not @Formidilosus, but I think it's interesting to compare some of the original precision competitions of, say 15 years ago (Rifles Only Brawl, Snipers Hide Cup, and others), with the PRS matches of today ... much more dynamic, with lots more movement: running across fields, walking over balance beams (with all of your gear), crawling through culverts, climbing towers, and much more.

Not surprising that the guns were far lighter. Same for more 'field rifle' type shooting, such as those hosted by Competition Dynamics - or most of the matches in NZ.

Back when Jacob was looking at organising the RO Assassin's Way (before it got axed by Covid), Chris Way said on the ES podcast that his (scoped) rifle for the Sniper Adventure Challenge was 17lb, but that he wanted to get it down to 16lbs, "but 12 or 13 would be good".

Fast forward to 2023, and he was talking about 10-12 lb ... in other words, half the 20-25 lb that the guy in the MDT video that @Q_Sertorius posted above.

Youre talking about weight. I thought we were talking about head position and scope height? Chris way might not be into mega heavy but he’s also been having like 2.5” height scope mounts made to get higher than what’s available.

 

[Dobermann]

Youre talking about weight. I thought we were talking about head position and scope height? Chris way might not be into mega heavy but he’s also been having like 2.5” height scope mounts made to get higher than what’s available.

Yep, I was just responding to you post responding to Form's, where he linked 30lb rifles to shooting sports that aren't 'dynamic'.

For @Sundodger's original questions, I've personally followed Frank's suggestion of raising the buttpad and canting it outboard so the rifle is upright, but the buttpad still follows the sholder pocket. I've also flipped it upside down - just like on the cover of his book. I also run high (1.35-1.75) rings.

 

[BBob]

he’s also been having like 2.5” height scope mounts made to get higher than what’s available.

Here we go, history always seems to repeat Tubb "chin gun".

 

[Sundodger]

Also, LOP is an issue, and the short LOP that is being pushed by PRS also causes issues.

Yeah, I got to learn that one though trying and failing as well...

Thread 'Setting up a rifle with a short LOP for an adult'

Jan 19, 2026

When I measure my LOP by the old fashion way around 14" works best and historically that's how I have set up my rifles. Given that, I shoot with my shoulders "bladed out" just like all of our fathers and grandfathers taught us.

Honestly, it has worked fine, but I recently tried to set up one of my tikkas to the "new way" with a much shorter LOP to shoot with my shoulders square to the rifle stock. Reason being, this new approach looks to have some potential merits when you draw up a free body diagram on the system.

Using a scope with 3.8" of eye relief, there was no way to get the scope...

• Sundodger
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Firearms

 

[Sundodger]

@BBob nailed my problem. While I haven't gone to the range yet, having both the long/standard LOP and squared up makes this seem feasible. For prone that was all that was needed, collar bone is pretty well suited to placing the top part of the recoil pad on easily. Offhand is another story, no shrugging needed, but I have to lean forward pretty aggressively other wise the bottom part of the recoil pad just rests on my peck. I think I can get used to this leaning forward thing, but it's going to take a while, and might have been my indication that I spend way too much time in the gym.

Measurements right now that seem to be working best:
-14 3/8" LOP
-Comb height is 0.45" higher than the center of the bore.
-Top of the buttpad is 0.65" higher than the center of the bore.
-Low rings