Staying warm when glassing

[Formidilosus]

Anything you add changes that 37F for static use and depending how you layer, significantly changes that. Hopefully I’m making sense.

No, it really doesn’t. Doubling up 2x 5oz fill puff jackets is not the same as an equivalent 10oz fill jacket.

Please share your personal experience using these jackets in true cold weather, and how that relates to the CLO numbers you reference.

 

[anonymous22]

No, it really doesn’t. Doubling up 2x 5oz fill puff jackets is not the same as an equivalent 10oz fill jacket.

Please share your personal experience using these jackets in true cold weather, and how that relates to the CLO numbers you reference.

I never said it was the same as a 10oz fill. I said you could double up, and it would add insulation in lieu of another mid layer. Yes it still adds CLO even if the loft is more comprised.

My experience is I put on a UA ridge reaper parka, and good layers, went hunting, glassed, and was fine in single digits. On a few occasions. As far as my core. My feet and hands were another thing. We are talking jackets though.


How is my experience related to CLO? Because I know how to layer. We will go back to the example of the Kuiu super down burner parka. Tested at 2.23 CLO. The layers were like a t shirt and stuff. Without them the jacket is like 1.70

A heavy merino shirt 260, the strongfleece 290 and the parka would ALL be about 2.53 CLO at 1 MET. Failure right?

Is it?

1 MET is like a statue. I don’t know about ya’ll but I fidget some when I glass. I move my legs. I stand up when my back hurts from sitting. That’s not 1 MET. If You estimate realistic glassing at 1.2 or 1.3 MET, the math starts to change.

Additionally, for every 1 milimeter or something of air space between layers it’s like .16 CLO. For 9 degrees freedom, you need about 3.19 at about 1.3 MET, and 3.65 at 1.2.

It’s doable. Especially when you’re NOT sticking in the Kuiu line for these examples. If you actually try, then you can find things like mountain hardware’s monkey man fleece which has .62 CLO vs Kuiu’s StrongFleece at .4 CLO. Sticking with a 260 merino at .4 CLO.

The Sitka kelvin aerolite’s special tech in their primaloft gives it a solid .95 CLO even if you compress it. Unlike if you double up on down I mentioned earlier. Now we are starting to get to a usable number and there’s other things you can do.

But what do I know.

 

[Formidilosus]

My experience is I put on a UA ridge reaper parka, and good layers, went hunting, glassed, and was fine in single digits. On a few occasions. As far as my core. My feet and hands were another thing. We are talking jackets though.

You wore one jacket on a few occasions and are in here arguing CLO and layers?

To anyone that has spent real time in cold weather- what you are writing seems to be “but one time I read”, not any actual experience.

How is my experience related to CLO? Because I know how to layer. We will go back to the example of the Kuiu super down burner parka. Tested at 2.23 CLO. The layers were like a t shirt and stuff. Without them the jacket is like 1.70

A heavy merino shirt 260, the strongfleece 290 and the parka would ALL be about 2.53 CLO at 1 MET. Failure right?

Is it?

1 MET is like a statue. I don’t know about ya’ll but I fidget some when I glass. I move my legs. I stand up when my back hurts from sitting. That’s not 1 MET. If You estimate realistic glassing at 1.2 or 1.3 MET, the math starts to change.

Additionally, for every 1 milimeter or something of air space between layers it’s like .16 CLO. For 9 degrees freedom, you need about 3.19 at about 1.3 MET, and 3.65 at 1.2.

It’s doable. Especially when you’re NOT sticking in the Kuiu line for these examples. If you actually try, then you can find things like mountain hardware’s monkey man fleece which has .62 CLO vs Kuiu’s StrongFleece at .4 CLO. Sticking with a 260 merino at .4 CLO.

The Sitka kelvin aerolite’s special tech in their primaloft gives it a solid .95 CLO even if you compress it. Unlike if you double up on down I mentioned earlier. Now we are starting to get to a usable number and there’s other things you can do.

Neat. Notice in all of your CLO’ing, you didn’t address what temperature that all of your clothing that you suggested allows you to remain motionless for hours. It seems like you can’t answer that because you don’t actually know because you haven’t used them, and haven’t spent much time outdoors in real cold- if this isn’t correct, please illuminate.


This is a prior post of yours about cold weather clothing-


So do you wear a base layer, one mid kayer, and a puffy? Or do you “CLO” up and layer multiple mid layers, multiple puffies, and move around to stay warm…?

A clue is… a jacket that has less loft than a 0° sleeping bag isn’t a 0° jacket when stationary glassing.

But what do I know.

I don’t know- I am trying to figure out if you have relevant personal experience with this subject or are you just regurgitating numbers and figures from a catalog? Nothing you have written says “my experience is”.

Fair is fair- it takes very little looking to see that I spend a lot of time in very cold conditions outside doing exactly what is being discussed, with a variety of clothing, and with dozens of others doing the same.

 

[NDHUNTER24]

@Formidilosus do you have a rough pricepoint on that down parka?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus do you have a rough pricepoint on that down parka?

I have been told $400’ish.

 

[Choupique]

If I have room in the pack for it, I like a hill people serape. Super easy to put on and take off over just about anything and keeps me nice and toasty. I love that stupid thing. Only problem is that it is quite bulky in the pack.

 

[anonymous22]

You wore one jacket on a few occasions and are in here arguing CLO and layers?

To anyone that has spent real time in cold weather- what you are writing seems to be “but one time I read”, not any actual experience.


Neat. Notice in all of your CLO’ing, you didn’t address what temperature that all of your clothing that you suggested allows you to remain motionless for hours. It seems like you can’t answer that because you don’t actually know because you haven’t used them, and haven’t spent much time outdoors in real cold- if this isn’t correct, please illuminate.

My math was to hit 9 degrees. Like I said, it’s weird to be a true 1 MET
I just forgot to put 9degrees. Because I wasn’t regurgitating anything. That said, the math mathed to about 5 degrees.

This is a prior post of yours about cold weather clothing-


So do you wear a base layer, one mid kayer, and a puffy? Or do you “CLO” up and layer multiple mid layers, multiple puffies, and move around to stay warm…?

I never said multiple mid layers. I gave examples of using a heavier mid layer to increase CLO in my recent post. Even the OPs first post was basicly doing this, you can get down enough to single digits and still be fairly safe. The key word and the original question is comfortable.

A clue is… a jacket that has less loft than a 0° sleeping bag isn’t a 0° jacket when stationary glassing.

Which I’m glad you mentioned. It’s WHY I did the math fit you. It’s called pure fabric math. Sleeping bags account for .8 to 1 MET. This .8-1 MET is why some people “sleep cold” or “warmer” than others.
The fabric math simply expresses that you can layer down to 5-9 degrees and be ok at a glassing MET if 1.2 or 1.3

I don’t know- I am trying to figure out if you have relevant personal experience with this subject or are you just regurgitating numbers and figures from a catalog? Nothing you have written says “my experience is”.

Fair is fair- it takes very little looking to see that I spend a lot of time in very cold conditions outside doing exactly what is being discussed

If you’re somebody special then say it. I’m not looking you up to see anything.

, with a variety of clothing, and with dozens of others doing the same.

Yes. Because otherwise the alternative without layering for the condition is in fact a heavy nonpackable parka. If that’s what you want to say, then say that. I already said.

The math is provable. Forum experience isn’t. Even if I post a picture of being in a blizzard, it doesn’t PROVE single digits. I never videos my pissing on the ground and it freezing. This is why I don’t play those games.

My experience IS, I’ve used a UA ridge reaper parka, heavy merino, and a fleece mid layer, and was fine. That jacket IS very high loft. On more than 1 occasion. My experience was interjected in the math explanation, as I said NOT to limit yourself to one brand for layers. I’ll go a step further and say not to limit yourself to hunting brands for layers. There are better CLO options for mid layers.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

@anonymous22 how long are you glassing for in 9 degrees with a UA Ridge Reaper Parka?

Perhaps comfortable for you, but I would wager a lot of money your setup will leave most others (including myself) after about 15 minutes.

You and @Formidilosus should do a video test in single digits. You each get a camera to use as your "glass" so we can see when you begin to get cold and shiver. You can use your UA parka setup and Form can use the new glassing puffy he helped design specifically for this task.

 

[anonymous22]

@anonymous22 how long are you glassing for in 9 degrees with a UA Ridge Reaper Parka?

Perhaps comfortable for you, but I would wager a lot of money your setup will leave most others (including myself) after about 15 minutes.

You and @Formidilosus should do a video test in single digits. You each get a camera to use as your "glass" so we can see when you begin to get cold and shiver. You can use your UA parka setup and Form can use the new glassing puffy he helped design specifically for this task.

mmm. Ok. In the only one that’s hunted a late season elk tag in the northern western states I guess. People do this stuff all time. Very often it’s single digits in the morning and evenings.

Sometimes wake up and my boots are frozen.

It’s like I said. There’s no form of proof that will satisfy those who made up their mind.

The good news, there’s plenty of videos of plenty of people in - to single digit hunting weather. Doing just that that. No need to make a video. Plenty exist. Including the tree stand guys.

 

[Formidilosus]

mmm. Ok. In the only one that’s hunted a late season elk tag in the northern western states I guess.

Oh no doubt.

People do this stuff all time. Very often it’s single digits in the morning and evenings.

And they lie about what they did all the time. No one is using a UA Ridge Reaper parka, heavy merino base layer, and a fleece mid layer at “5-9°” stationary glassing (the threads topic) and being “fine”. Surviving, yes maybe. Being comfortable- no.

You show that you don’t actually have experience to be talking about what you are.

Sometimes wake up and my boots are frozen.

It’s like I said. There’s no form of proof that will satisfy those who made up their mind.

Just what you write it is obvious that you are using theory and not experience. If people do what you are writing and actually try to sit and glass comfortably in “5-9°”, they will be miserable after a few minutes without moving.

The good news, there’s plenty of videos of plenty of people in - to single digit hunting weather. Doing just that that. No need to make a video. Plenty exist. Including the tree stand guys.

I posted a link to a thread with quite a few people doing stuff in cold weather- not one would agree the a ridge reaper parka and a mid layer is a single digit system- unless you are moving. Which is a worthless metric.

 

[Formidilosus]

My math was to hit 9 degrees.

“Math”. How about “actual experience doing what you are pontificating”?

Like I said, it’s weird to be a true 1 MET
I just forgot to put 9degrees. Because I wasn’t regurgitating anything. That said, the math mathed to about 5 degrees.

You’re regurgitating nearly everything. You haven’t said “I spend ‘X’ amount of days a year in ‘Y’ temperatures, and ‘Z’ is the clothing that has worked for glassing comfortably without moving for extended periods of time”.


“Math” doesn’t tell us reality, nor is it correct in this case.

I never said multiple mid layers. I gave examples of using a heavier mid layer to increase CLO in my recent post. Even the OPs first post was basicly doing this, you can get down enough to single digits and still be fairly safe. The key word and the original question is comfortable.

Yes- comfortable. You aren’t being comfortable below 25’ish degrees F stationary glassing with less than 12’ish ounces of high quality down in a jacket, with a base layer and a good mid layer.

Which I’m glad you mentioned. It’s WHY I did the math fit you. It’s called pure fabric math.

You can stop trying to “educate” me on terms. Please educate me on your actual, personal experience with glassing stationary in truly cold weather.

Sleeping bags account for .8 to 1 MET. This .8-1 MET is why some people “sleep cold” or “warmer” than others.
The fabric math simply expresses that you can layer down to 5-9 degrees and be ok at a glassing MET if 1.2 or 1.3

What layers exactly have you used for glassing stationary for extended periods (hours) with no need to build a fire, do pushups, stomp your feet, etc in 5° F weather?

If you’re somebody special then say it. I’m not looking you up to see anything.

Not someone special. But I actually glass stationary in truly cold weather (sub 20° F) for extended periods of time for 60-90 days on average per year.

Yes. Because otherwise the alternative without layering for the condition is in fact a heavy nonpackable parka. If that’s what you want to say, then say that. I already said.

Non packable? Really?

The math is provable. Forum experience isn’t. Even if I post a picture of being in a blizzard, it doesn’t PROVE single digits. I never videos my pissing on the ground and it freezing. This is why I don’t play those games.

Yes- it clearly makes sense to not state what you personal, actual experience is- and instead resort to “math”. Especially when the “math” doesn’t match reality.

My experience IS, I’ve used a UA ridge reaper parka, heavy merino, and a fleece mid layer, and was fine.

“Fine”? What does that mean. Fine certainly doesn’t mean “comfortable”. And at 5-9° F- did you do this one days or 100 days? Were you stationary?

That jacket IS very high loft. On more than 1 occasion. My experience was interjected in the math explanation, as I said NOT to limit yourself to one brand for layers. I’ll go a step further and say not to limit yourself to hunting brands for layers. There are better CLO options for mid layers.

The Ridge Reaper is NOT a single digit layer garment for glassing stationary. Not even close.

 

[Formidilosus]

To all-

This is why you need to ask relevant questions and pay attention to what is actually being said. Neat sounding “math” without broad base experience to back it up will leave you miserable in real life.

 

[anonymous22]

.

Yep. I’ve never hunted a late season montana, and it was never single digits in the mornings.

You know, I just like pushing a jacket that isn’t made anymore, for no reason, and talk about layering just because. You got me.

If you hate the math, then you should NEVER look at a temp rating on a sleeping bag.

 

[Ajsomp]

To all-

This is why you need to ask relevant questions and pay attention to what is actually being said. Neat sounding “math” without broad base experience to back it up will leave you miserable in real life.

We all know it’s the suffering of others that keeps your warm not that puffy or wool sweater