Spotting scope on a budget

[Xlr8n]

Can you find "hunter' or "hunting" on Kowa's website? Would your experience in searching for that supportive language lead you to the same conclusion?

Yup as he just pointed out Kowa hasn't publicly taken a stance. Opticron has. No worries either way. You do you, I'll do me. It's all good.

 

[sndmn11]

That’s fair, how many hunting specific retailers does Kowa have vs Opticron, serious question as I don’t know but I do know Kowa uses S&S Archery as a retailer which is hunting specific.

Pretty sure Kowa is also represented at hunting expo type shows aren’t they, is Opticron?

I don’t think Kowa has publicly taken a stance against hunting.

I can't find an anti hunting stance by Opticron in any press release or direct interview, but I can share my personal experiences that are within two years. I don't think not being sold at hunting specific retailers means a company is anti hunting, I think it is demonstrative of what distribution channels the brand is available in, and also what types of retailers seek out the brand.

I can't find Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering, Salomon, Hilleberg, Outdoor Research (BF Goodrich, we could do this all day) mention hunting or their support of hunting on their websites. I think there is a distinction between anti-hunting and not hunting focused because hunters are a tiny market for products that cover many markets.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Here’s an article talking about Opticron’s stance:

Optics brands speak out about hunting | Ethical Consumer

Opticron and Viking Optical lead the way

www.ethicalconsumer.org

As far as the word “hunting” appearing in Kowa’s site, the answer is “yes”.

 

[sndmn11]

Here’s an article talking about Opticron’s stance:

Optics brands speak out about hunting | Ethical Consumer

Opticron and Viking Optical lead the way

www.ethicalconsumer.org

As far as the word “hunting” appearing in Kowa’s site, the answer is “yes”.

You are smarter than to cite an article that doesn't cite the company's representative who they interviewed.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

You are smarter than to cite an article that doesn't cite the company's representative who they interviewed.

You’re right. I should know better than to feed a troll.

 

[bcox90]

The main reason I got the ED50 is weight. I’m an ounce counter, and I just know I won’t take the Ares with me. You have to spend 2-3x more on a Kowa 553 to get a similar weight.

Side note: if you do get an ED50. Do some reading on the fixed eye pieces. I’m far from an expert, but many of the experts used the fixed ones for good reason.

I want to get better at counting ounces. I'll check these out

 

[sndmn11]

You’re right. I should know better than to feed a troll.

Find the source!

 

[Blue72]

I can very plainly say that Michaela Burgess, Opticron's North American Sales Director, and I had many conversations about the MM4 spotter I have with her knowing full well I worked within the hunting industry and would be using it for such. The conversation progressed enough that the MM4 I purchased was direct from Opticron, it was her personal sales demo, for the purpose of evaluating durability in rougher use by a hunter and providing feedback for market exploration. Her well used sales demo was chosen so that if there was a hard use longevity issue, it would be further down that road than a new one would be. That conversation began late 2018 and I received the spotter February 2019.

Maybe things changed since, maybe they were different before, I can't speak to how things sit now. I do know I submitted my report and had subsequent conversations with Michaela in 2020 and nothing seemed anti-hunter.

since you have an inside source, maybe you should reach out and have her give us the official company position

 

[sndmn11]

since you have an inside source, maybe you should reach out and have her give us the official company position

You bet. I'd love to see the source everyone keeps saying is out there so I can link it in my email.

Inquiries that are pseudo accusatory and request a response to a perceived position should include the basis for why the inquiry exists.

 

[Blue72]

You bet. I'd love to see the source everyone keeps saying is out there so I can link it in my email.

Inquiries that are pseudo accusatory and request a response to a perceived position should include the basis for why the inquiry exists.

send her the link above and tell her the outdoor community would like clarification on the company position

simple enough

 

[sndmn11]

send her the link above and tell her the outdoor community would like clarification on the company position

simple enough

To be clear, that is the authoratative source being used to make the claim? No others can be found?

 

[Blue72]

To be clear, that is the authoratative source being used to make the claim? No others can be found?

never mind I’ll contact opticron myself

 

[Blue72]

while we wait for a response

I found this from Pete Gamby at opticron


From the very beginning we have strongly supported conservation and birding in the way we have marketed the brand and we decided to continue promoting our products in this way. This means we are effectively excluded from 95% of the market which goes through hunting-orientated outlets


We are a brand for birders and nature observers and so self-exclude ourselves from a huge market in the States, and a significant market in Europe, and that is the hunting market. This is quite different from, for example, Hawke, whose main market is hunters and other similar outdoor enthusiasts, and for whom the nature market is perhaps less significant as a share of its business

 

[Erussell01]

I believe they are one of two optic companies that don’t support it


too the original poster…..while I believe my Nikon ed50 is an amazing piece of optic and can go against the big dogs. Keep in mind the best magnification is around 16-20x range…although many still like 27x…..with that said you might want to consider high powered bino’s for their extra benefits of two eyed viewing

Is the usable range usually somewhere around the 2/3 mark of the mag on cheaper scopes?

What kind of big binos do you recommend in a similar price range?

 

[Blue72]

Is the usable range usually somewhere around the 2/3 mark of the mag on cheaper scopes?

What kind of big binos do you recommend in a similar price range?

that’s a question that will vary by the individual. Everyone has their own comfort level regarding exit pupil, how bright of an image they want, or level of sharpness

I truly believe the ED50 has exceptional glass with many claiming it comes close or matches alpha glass. With that said, higher magnification like the 27x eyepiece are outstanding, but it is slightly darker compared to the 20x and 16x eyepieces

for bino’s I like maven…..you can also get 16x56 or 20x56 Nikon monarch 5 from Japan for around $500. For super low budget the Pentax 20x60 has been a favorite among astronomers for many years but they do have a smaller field of view

 

[sndmn11]

while we wait for a response

I found this from Pete Gamby at opticron


From the very beginning we have strongly supported conservation and birding in the way we have marketed the brand and we decided to continue promoting our products in this way. This means we are effectively excluded from 95% of the market which goes through hunting-orientated outlets


We are a brand for birders and nature observers and so self-exclude ourselves from a huge market in the States, and a significant market in Europe, and that is the hunting market. This is quite different from, for example, Hawke, whose main market is hunters and other similar outdoor enthusiasts, and for whom the nature market is perhaps less significant as a share of its business

I think that is a great find, from the man himself, and highlights their market approach. It also jives with what my understanding is of the company and their goals. I don't read anywhere in that as an ANTI hunting brand, I read that as it isn't their target consumer.

Thanks for digging that up.

 

[Blue72]

I think that is a great find, from the man himself, and highlights their market approach. It also jives with what my understanding is of the company and their goals. I don't read anywhere in that as an ANTI hunting brand, I read that as it isn't their target consumer.

Thanks for digging that up.

I read it as a company that is playing it safe and panders to anti hunting groups

but that’s your prerogative. The beauty of capitalism is that I can vote with my dollars to those that serves me best.

especially when opticron is a relabel company not a manufacturer

 

[Xlr8n]

I read it as a company that is playing it safe and panders to anti hunting groups

but that’s your prerogative. The beauty of capitalism is that I can vote with my dollars to those that serves me best.

especially when opticron is a relabel company not a manufacturer

Agree.

Shooting Wildlife II | Ethical Consumer

Our new report explores the debates surrounding the ethics and impacts of sport hunting. It updates the 2016 ‘Shooting wildlife?’ report, and re-examines how 30 optics companies approach this sensitive subject. It recommends the companies to to buy your optics from.

www.ethicalconsumer.org

From the above link

"Opticron responded in December 2017 stating that it had removed all mention of hunting from its website. The company stated that the decision was ‘partly as a result of the ongoing work with conservation organisations’, and partly due to customer feedback after the publication of the first version of the report, in which customers told the company that they had chosen its products because of its comparatively minimal links to hunting.
‘As you will be well aware, binoculars can be used for hunting regardless of whether or not a brand supports that activity. And there are some types of "hunting" such as deer population management which are necessary, in that case due to the lack of top predators in the UK for example. Optics are an essential part of making sure any such cull is done properly.’ The brand emphasised, however, that it would not support trophy or sports hunts "

Opticron supports population control culls as part of wildlife management. They do not support sport hunting. That is anti-hunting regardless of how you try to slice it.

More than likely they are attempting to walk on both sides of the street by carefully selecting their words. Weak Sauce on them imho.

 

[Blue72]

Agree.

Shooting Wildlife II | Ethical Consumer

Our new report explores the debates surrounding the ethics and impacts of sport hunting. It updates the 2016 ‘Shooting wildlife?’ report, and re-examines how 30 optics companies approach this sensitive subject. It recommends the companies to to buy your optics from.

www.ethicalconsumer.org

From the above link


Opticron supports population control culls as part of wildlife management. They do not support sport hunting. That is anti-hunting regardless of how you try to slice it.

More than likely they are attempting to walk on both sides of the street by carefully selecting their words. Weak Sauce on them imho.

they just regurgitated the same thing to me, not long ago. This was the response I recieved




Thanks for your enquiry.

Where appropriate we would support the management of wildlife populations for conservation purposes but not for commercial purposes such as driven bird shoots or trophy hunts where population management is not the objective. Our support for conservation is illustrated by the fact that we work closely with Birdlife International partners around the world and in the UK we are the exclusive optics supplier to The Wildlife Trusts.

As you will be aware, a brand's binoculars could be used for hunting regardless of whether or not that brand supports that activity. And there are some types of "hunting" such as deer population management which are necessary, in that case due to the lack of top predators in the UK for example. Optics are an essential part of making sure any such cull is done properly.

If you use the search function on our website, you should find that hunt, hunting and hunter do not return and results and shoot, shooting or shooter are only referenced in terms of target archery, rifle range shooting and in specifications for cameras.

I hope this sets out our position.

Best regards, Pete
Sales & Marketing Director

 

[Hawkeyes]

Found this review on YouTube.