Spin test HIT inserts before epoxy sets?

[Jake Larsen]

This one is for the arrow builders out there. I'm doing a new build with Black Eagle rampages using easton hit inserts, which I've never worked with before. In the past, when I've installed my inserts, i keep a point in the insert and spin test before the epoxy or hot melt sets, rotating the insert if need be to get a perfectly true spin. I'm wondering if anyone does something similar with HIT inserts? I'm worried it'll mess up the set depth when i remove the point?

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[Trial153]

I have never done that with hits, In fact I think your asking for trouble. The only thing I do with Hits differently then the standard install is I install them a hair shallow as I use Flanged footers and the flange adds a bit of space to shaft face.
If a HIT and Broadhead aren't spinning true with a HIT, its most likely that shaft face isnt squared up right. Make sure you shafts are good and square then install...you will be fine.
BTW I use VPA footers and Brass Hits with rampages and they make great combination.

 

[wapitibob]

I wouldn't use epoxy, good hot melt gives you options down the road. I would use a good sharp pointed field point for your spin test or a broadhead without the blades. Removing the point won't do anything once the hot melt solidifies, about 5 seconds if you dip the point in some water.

 

[TravisIN]

I wouldn't use epoxy, good hot melt gives you options down the road. I would use a good sharp pointed field point for your spin test or a broadhead without the blades. Removing the point won't do anything once the hot melt solidifies, about 5 seconds if you dip the point in some water.

Hot melt with HIT inserts is kind of an sob bc you have to make sure they are set at the right depth. With hot melt I’ve always used an insert tool to heat up the insert then put it on the glue. The hot insert melts the glue then you put it in the arrow. With a HIT insert you have to do that then unscrew the tool and grab your HIT insert tool and push it in to the right depth. It can be done just sucks to do. Maybe there is another way to do it that’s easier. I think with HIT inserts are best with epoxy. You have time to get everything set right and it definitely holds a lot better than hot melt, just in my experience. I’ve never had an issue with getting wobble after putting in HIT inserts. I just give them a little twist when I first put them in to evenly distribute the epoxy.


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[roadrunner]

If a HIT and Broadhead aren't spinning true with a HIT, its most likely that shaft face isnt squared up right.

So, this means that the insert is loose and has enough slop or play to mis-align according to the an unsquare face? If the insert is indeed secured by adhesive, either epoxy or hot melt glue, the shaft face being unsquare is irrelevant. When the base of the point is in contact with the shaft and it is unsquare, all you will get is a little gap at one side of the interface and that's all. The threads of the point will not bend to match and unsquare shaft face.

 

[Trial153]

So, this means that the insert is loose and has enough slop or play to mis-align according to the an unsquare face? If the insert is indeed secured by adhesive, either epoxy or hot melt glue, the shaft face being unsquare is irrelevant. When the base of the point is in contact with the shaft and it is unsquare, all you will get is a little gap at one side of the interface and that's all. The threads of the point will not bend to match and unsquare shaft face.

Place a Broadhead that uses a washer in a shaft that has misaligned face and hit insert, tight up and spin it on bearings take a look at it. Let me know how that works out for you. Maybe I been wasting my time squaring up every shaft....

 

[OR Archer]

Square the shaft. Use the epoxy. Lay them flat until it cures. Don’t try to screw anything in them to early or you’re going to mess them up.

 

[Beendare]

I have never done that with hits, In fact I think your asking for trouble. .....
If a HIT and Broadhead aren't spinning true with a HIT, its most likely that shaft face isnt squared up right. Make sure you shafts are good and square then install...you will be fine.
.....

I totally agree ^.

The HIT system has good concentricity assuming you use a thick material like the epoxy they recommend and spin so its evenly distributed on install. The only ones I've seen with problems were when guys have used a very thin glue like crazy glue...or arrows right off the saw without milling the ends.

 

[Gumbo]

If your tip is wobbly after you put in the HIT just give a few more spins on the G5 squaring device. Unless you get ridiculously crazy with it it won't shave off enough to make a difference on seating your tips and has always fixed my wobbly tips. The beauty of the HIT in my experience is that it can't go in any way other than straight. And I shoot rampages too and love the HIT.

Another piece of advice is to use some sandpaper and file away a little of the green plastic collar on the HIT insertion tool (the rings just behind the tip that actually push on the insert). I have found that in the Rampages at least the tolerance is a pretty tight, which causes a slight amount of suction when you pull the tool out which can cause the insert to be pulled slightly back out. It can be enough to make it so you can't seat a broadhead or field tip all the way. And the tool will get a little glue on it while using it, so I resand the rings as needed, usually once or twice a dozen. Also, when building my Rampages, I lay them perfectly lined up side by side on a table so I can make sure each insert is at the same depth ( I actually use an old arrow for my initial comparison to the first arrow). I use a flashlight to look in the end and compare depth to the previous arrows. If one gets sucked back out upon tool removal I can then carefully reseat it with the tool, but you have to be quick. I also have a gold tip weight adjustment rod on hand to run through from the nock end in the odd case one gets pushed in too far. Either of these scenarios will ruin the shaft if you are using a strong, fast setting adhesive like Goat Tuff rubberized glue (what I use). I also suggest leaving them laying there and keeping them still for the first hour or so while the glue sets, then not putting in any tips for at least a couple hours. If you tip them up or or down before the glue sets the inserts can slide up or down, which can also ruin the arrow.

I've built a lot of these and ruined a few of the first ones I did because of the above issues. It sounds like a pain but once you get it down it is a piece of cake, you just have to pay attention and not get in a hurry.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Thanks for the input everyone

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[jmez]

I've been shooting the HIT's for a long time and have never had an issue with them not spinning true. I build all my own arrows. I just square the face of the shaft with a G5 device and then epoxy them in place.

 

[5MilesBack]

So, this means that the insert is loose and has enough slop or play to mis-align according to the an unsquare face?

If there's slop inside the shaft between the HIT and the shaft wall, then you've got bigger problems or bought really bad arrow shafts.

 

[roadrunner]

I totally agree ^.

...The only ones I've seen with problems were when guys have used a very thin glue like crazy glue...

Now that makes sense. In order for a broadhead to sit crooked there needs to be some movement of the insert or the insert is not centered as in sitting on the low side of an arrow shaft as the glue set while the shaft lay horizontal.

Trial153 - have never had a problem with BH flight and I do not painstakingly square up shaft ends. If you like to square up ends, then it's not a waste of your time...

 

[Beendare]

Now that makes sense. In order for a broadhead to sit crooked there needs to be some movement of the insert or the insert is not centered as in sitting on the low side of an arrow shaft as the glue set while the shaft lay horizontal.

Well....not exactly but true in the vast majority of cases. There is a chance of a little runout when they extruded the shaft...ie- the end of the shaft is not quite as straight as the rest of the arrow. I gotta tell you, I've been using these Axis shafts for a couple decades and I haven't seen this runout problem with these.

The problems are mostly operator error on the install with these Axis....or guys don't take the time to square the ends on some type of jig...a crucial step.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I cut and square both ends. Then glue and lay flat. After a couple hours I spun them 180 degrees. All of my arrows turned out fantastic!